SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

'Thou shall not kill is a stupid commandment. More people have died in the name of God than any other cause'

Discuss.

that religion for you: stupid

EDIT: and it's not like all religions say you shouldn't kill, some say you're supposed to kill some kinds of people.
and that end my in depth discussion of religions, since I hate to waste my time on the most stupid subject ever.

From: Brain
that religion for you: stupid

You what? :P

I wasn't saying just for you, or that you're stupid :p
religion is stupid, and that's just how it is. Of course if it helps you wrap your mind around things, or make you feel better because you have a "purpose" feel free to indulge yourself.

It is the law in most countries (certainly developed countries).
I'm sure a lot of people have died at the hand of religion. I'm also sure a lot of people died under the reign of Stalin and Hitler (they managed to do it more effectively and quickly though - I'm sure they'd easily outclass religion if they had a couple of thousand of years to do it).

From: Brain
I wasn't saying just for you, or that you're stupid :p
religion is stupid, and that's just how it is. Of course if it helps you wrap your mind around things, or make you feel better because you have a "purpose" feel free to indulge yourself.

Oh I agree, religion is rubbish. The religous war comes from one group of people having a different imaginary guy in the sky than the other group.

I read somewhere it was.


Thou shall not murder.

They changed murder to kill.


Murder and kill is two different things if you ask me.

Murder is killing without a reason, or a good one at that.

You try to rob me, and threaten my life, imma blow your head off.
That's not murder ^^^^

Bah, not related to religon, but to the military.

In the US Army, if you are manning a .50 cal machine gun, you can't shoot at personnel, you can only take out equipment. This is due to the incredible damage associated with the .50 cal. Well, their helmet is equipment, their dogtags are equipment, and so on. :P

Anyway, pretty much completely off topic, but oh well.

Some times, people deserve to die.

How is it a stupid commandment? Do you really think killing is good? People have died for God, but haven't killed for God.

EDIT: 900th post :D

From: Griff721
How is it a stupid commandment? Do you really think killing is good? People have died for God, but haven't killed for God.

EDIT: 900th post :D

im on your side

but im jsut pointing out that crusaders killed for god(i think)

From: Griff721
How is it a stupid commandment? Do you really think killing is good? People have died for God, but haven't killed for God.

lol….depends on which god you're talking about…people kill for "god" all the time

From: Brain
lol….depends on which god you're talking about…people kill for "god" all the time

That's true, but the main thing is, thou shall not kill is still a good commandment. Most people follow it, there's just a few groups who don't.

From: Torrent of Flame
'Thou shall not kill is a stupid commandment. More people have died in the name of God than any other cause'

Now the question is, how does God/Buddha/Hare Krishna/Yahweh feel about that? No where in any scared text I have ever read does G/B/HK/Y say anyone should die (with the *possible* exception of the Old Testament. Note: I say GOD here, not prophets/spiritual leaders/"interpreters"… human error is a bitch :p).

That quote points to a great ill in today's western religion and base philosophy.

Well, I can't exactly look it up at the moment since I'm on my phone, but I seem to remember quite a few places in the old testament that say heathen/non-jews should be killed, as in entire cities (it was the story of the guy with the trumpet, can't remember his name though). Just as well, gos himself killed quite a few people. "Thou shall not kill" is just something almost all religions have to cover their bases. (Also, Hitler was mainly killing jews and gays == religion-related deaths.)

From: Widget
Well, I can't exactly look it up at the moment since I'm on my phone, but I seem to remember quite a few places in the old testament that say heathen/non-jews should be killed, as in entire cities (it was the story of the guy with the trumpet, can't remember his name though). Just as well, gos himself killed quite a few people. "Thou shall not kill" is just something almost all religions have to cover their bases. (Also, Hitler was mainly killing jews and gays == religion-related deaths.)

Joshua?

I think killing is bad, but that is kinda hypocritical.

I recall it being taught as "thou shalt not murder," as well. I don't care how religious you are; if someone charges at you and your loved ones with a giant sword, you're going to shoot them in the head. ;)

Also, in the 10 plagues, God sent an angel to kill the first sons of all who didn't mark their doors with the lamb's blood. If it was "thou shalt not kill", would that not be a loophole?

I'm sticking with "thou shalt not murder," because- in my mind- murdering is done in cold blood/without much reason.

Example:
You see a person wearing a shirt of a band you dislike on the street.
You stab them with a knife multiple times because of that shirt.

Murder.

Someone charges at you with a knife, with the intent to murder you. You shoot them.

Killing. You were in defense of your life, which was about to be taken. ;)

Just a few thoughts.
~Macro_FTW

your full of so much crap. Nagasaki and hiroshima alone outnumber the amount of deaths ever caused by Christianity and Judiasm combined.

that means more people have died because of science than any other cause.

and if you want to take the commandment literally as it was written, lets look at the hebrew word for kill and see what it actually means

the hebrew word for kill that is used in that sentence is

"ratsach"

looking up that word you would find that it means….

to murder, to slay, to kill
by means of PREMEDEITATION

/thread

o.o I like this rogue poser guy :D He's smart.

(I was talking about the stuff about Hebrew :p)

From: rogue poser
your full of so much crap. Nagasaki and hiroshima alone outnumber the amount of deaths ever caused by Christianity and Judiasm combined.

that means more people have died because of science than any other cause.

Don't confuse science with politicians ;)

From: rogue poser
your full of so much crap. Nagasaki and hiroshima alone outnumber the amount of deaths ever caused by Christianity and Judiasm combined.

har har har har
very funny dude, you look that info up yourself?
approx death toll of both atomic weapons :220,000
approx death toll of the crusades alone: 2,000,000

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades#Casualties

again, can I ask people to post sources for all their "facts"? Otherwise it's just bull crap.

From: Brain
har har har har
very funny dude, you look that info up yourself?
approx death toll of both atomic weapons :220,000
approx death toll of the crusades alone: 2,000,000

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades#Casualties

again, can I ask people to post sources for all their "facts"? Otherwise it's just bull crap.

my statement was simply a knee jerk reaction to the asinine argument waged by the op. i stand by the rest of my statment that shows how failed his logic is with regards to the shall not murder commandment.

in addition, to blame the entire death toll on the christians in asinine, as there were mongols, cathars, muslims and hussites involved

but would the deaths have occurred if the Christians didn't decide to go on the crusades?
were the "mongols, cathars, muslims and hussites" motivated by religion?

From: Brain
but would the deaths have occurred if the Christians didn't decide to go on the crusades?
were the "mongols, cathars, muslims and hussites" motivated by religion?

muslim…. need i say more?

what would have happened if the jews had never been conquered in the first place and still held the land? what would the death tolls be then?

you can "what if" all day

but like i already said, that argument was just a knee jerk reaction to a ridiculous statement. my statement was just as ridiculous as what i was responding to

From: Torrent of Flame
'Thou shall not kill is a stupid commandment. More people have died in the name of God than any other cause'

Discuss.

Ok, problem in your statement… wouldn't that increase the validity of God? Saying that, and I quote, "more people have died in the name of God than any other cause," shows that more than EVER have died for the same thing… God… now is that in itself not saying something? I would discuss; however, you have done that for me. Thanks:p.

From: Macro_FTW
I recall it being taught as "thou shalt not murder," as well. I don't care how religious you are; if someone charges at you and your loved ones with a giant sword, you're going to shoot them in the head. ;)

Also, in the 10 plagues, God sent an angel to kill the first sons of all who didn't mark their doors with the lamb's blood. If it was "thou shalt not kill", would that not be a loophole?

I'm sticking with "thou shalt not murder," because- in my mind- murdering is done in cold blood/without much reason.

Example:
You see a person wearing a shirt of a band you dislike on the street.
You stab them with a knife multiple times because of that shirt.

Murder.

Someone charges at you with a knife, with the intent to murder you. You shoot them.

Killing. You were in defense of your life, which was about to be taken. ;)

Just a few thoughts.
~Macro_FTW

Yes, there is quite a difference between the two words.

From: rogue poser
your full of so much crap. Nagasaki and hiroshima alone outnumber the amount of deaths ever caused by Christianity and Judiasm combined.

that means more people have died because of science than any other cause.

and if you want to take the commandment literally as it was written, lets look at the hebrew word for kill and see what it actually means

the hebrew word for kill that is used in that sentence is

"ratsach"

looking up that word you would find that it means….

to murder, to slay, to kill
by means of PREMEDEITATION

/thread

And that there is why I can't stand English. The English language does not have the intricacy and beauty of Hebrew and Greek… anyone who has studied either of these languages would understand what I am talking about….. hmm… A great example would be the the English word "'love" which is used to describe a a selfless relationship between two devoted beings, ~> to an enjoyment experienced from watching a thrilling movie…. THAT'S CRAZY!…. whereas the Greek and Hebrew are more intricate and anybody who is interested can read about that here... See? that is just one word… it happens many many times…. it should make you wonder how "convenient" was it that the original Bible text was primarily written in Hebrew and Greek….two languages that when there is a declaration or command, it cannot be misunderstood or misinterpreted.

From: Brain
har har har har
very funny dude, you look that info up yourself?
approx death toll of both atomic weapons :220,000
approx death toll of the crusades alone: 2,000,000

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades#Casualties

again, can I ask people to post sources for all their "facts"? Otherwise it's just bull crap.

@ rogue poser
and
@ Brain
and
@ whomever else would like to agree with either of them on this topic….

Slow down for just a bit there. You are talking about the instantaneous deaths. You are not even considering the injury deaths that amounted, say, over the next two months. Again, the amount of deaths caused by cancer. Now there is something you bypassed completely. You forgot to include the bit that virtually the United States started the majority of cancer. And that there kids is why testing MUST be done underground… Other countries joined in eventually though…. [sarcasm ahead] Joseph Stalin Jr., "but mom, other countries are doing it…" [end of sarcasm] … My point, cancer increased the number of deaths. To anybody that is interested… "The numbers for those that are dying of cancer in the world are increasing. 2007 was one of the last years recorded, and 7.9 million people died of cancer." …I assume that is an overall number?..can anyone elaborate…and here is another one for cancer.

Comparing the death toll of the crusades to the death toll of nukes in Japan is like saying, "bears have been known to attack man, although the fact is that fewer people have been killed by bears than in all of World War I and World War II combined." …..you get my point… yes you tried to make a point but as Brain said, [paraphrase] make your statement(s) legit [end paraphrase] … and try better next time… Seriously Brain, you said, "can I ask people to post sources for all their "facts"?""…. and you quoted from wikipedia… fail.

From: anonymity
…. and you quoted from wikipedia… fail.

wikipedia is better than nothing, even it requires sources. If you think wikipedia is a sham you've been listening to your high school teachers a little too blindly.

I am sorry..ish… but I thought it was funny… you were complaining about sources and you cited a site that is not always accurate. Irony…

Not from high school teachers… personal viewings you see… I check my sources and their author… I don't just deem hearsay as fact….. well… yes it is at least a source… more than the usual "fact" post… congrats.

From: Widget
Well, I can't exactly look it up at the moment since I'm on my phone, but I seem to remember quite a few places in the old testament that say heathen/non-jews should be killed, as in entire cities (it was the story of the guy with the trumpet, can't remember his name though). Just as well, gos himself killed quite a few people. "Thou shall not kill" is just something almost all religions have to cover their bases. (Also, Hitler was mainly killing jews and gays == religion-related deaths.)

Right man, but who said it? Was it God (or however you want to name it) or was it a Jew with perhaps a political agenda :cool:

From: rogue poser
muslim…. need i say more?

Islam is a religion of peace, as all true religions are. What your thinking of is a radical group who have misinterpreted the writings (aka fundamentalists). Christianity has them too, as I'm sure all religions do. Now they take different forms, but that does not change the fact that a) your perpetuating a harmful stereotype while displaying great ignorance and intolerance, and b) they are not Islamic. They are continually dismissed by the Islamic faith organization, and anyone who understands Islam.

If you go into a discussion on any subject, be it religion, politics or whats for dinner; attacking is never, ever, going to get anyone anywhere. So my advice is to stay out of these types of discussions until you can do that. You'll just make a bunch of people mad and look like an ignorant sheep.

From: Widget
Don't confuse science with politicians ;)

And don't confuse The Great Spirit with his prophets, friends, and those who claim to be his friends ;)

Hey,
I think you missed something, since we are not allowed to kill anyone and take his life, we are not the judge, we are just citizens. The military gets permission from the governments to keep peace over countries, if you kill 1 people to safe 200 people, then it is allowed, though I would love to see nobody die, but yeah that is not possible.

God's followers in the early times of the bible were allowed to kill other people, if they were allowed by the judge God.(If you don't believe in god you won't believe this so…)
A cop can't put you in jail, a judge has to speak out a punishment then the cop send you to jail. God gave governments the power to rule the countries, they can abuse it or use it in the good way. God gave the power to let those judges judge people who have/haven't done something wrong. That doesn't mean that if there went something wrong, you can blame God.

I hope this post was readable since, I am trying to increase my English Grammar. :)

Why do people think God is bad?
He wants You to come along this Sunday in church. 1 Hour out of the whole week you have got from him for several years long ;). Just give it a try.

From: Ruroken
Right man, but who said it? Was it God (or however you want to name it) or was it a Jew with perhaps a political agenda :cool:



Islam is a religion of peace, as all true religions are. What your thinking of is a radical group who have misinterpreted the writings (aka fundamentalists). Christianity has them too, as I'm sure all religions do. Now they take different forms, but that does not change the fact that a) your perpetuating a harmful stereotype while displaying great ignorance and intolerance, and b) they are not Islamic. They are continually dismissed by the Islamic faith organization, and anyone who understands Islam.

If you go into a discussion on any subject, be it religion, politics or whats for dinner; attacking is never, ever, going to get anyone anywhere. So my advice is to stay out of these types of discussions until you can do that. You'll just make a bunch of people mad and look like an ignorant sheep.

Thanks,

Thou shall not kill also implies to animals, this means that Christians should be vegetarians :confused:.

From: NaumanAkhlaQ
Thanks,

Thou shall not kill also implies to animals, this means that Christians should be vegetarians :confused:.

Nope :D.
Can some people first try to read and investigate stuff you state here?
I am not saying I know everything, but yeah. It would be handy :D.

From: Hermen
Hey,
I think you missed something, since we are not allowed to kill anyone and take his life, we are not the judge, we are just citizens. The military gets permission from the governments to keep peace over countries, if you kill 1 people to safe 200 people, then it is allowed, though I would love to see nobody die, but yeah that is not possible.

God's followers in the early times of the bible were allowed to kill other people, if they were allowed by the judge God.(If you don't believe in god you won't believe this so…)
A cop can't put you in jail, a judge has to speak out a punishment then the cop send you to jail. God gave governments the power to rule the countries, they can abuse it or use it in the good way. God gave the power to let those judges judge people who have/haven't done something wrong. That doesn't mean that if there went something wrong, you can blame God.

I hope this post was readable since, I am trying to increase my English Grammar. :)

I feel that killing someone in any case is not permissible. Not to drag this off topic, but it comes down to choice (among other things). When you kill someone, you make a choice for them. A very, very big choice. A choice that was never yours to make. You also make a choice for yourself, you choose to kill a fellow human and all that comes with it. This is why suicide is not the same as murder, it is your choice to make. Now if that choice is the right one or not is a different question. You still kill a human, and all that comes with it.

Now you might say that the other person made his or her choice when he or she committed whatever act that made you feel you had the right to kill him or her. Perhaps they killed and raped a child. A heinous act by anyone's standards. Did the child "deserve" to die? No. But neither do they. Lock them away for the rest of their lives, do what you have to do to sleep at night with the exception of torture or murder. I feel that making someone live after doing that is far worse then killing them. Imagine one day waking up and realizing the significance of what you had done, and then having to live with that.

This works both ways, because the day YOU wake up and realize the significance of what you've done, you need to live with that for the rest of your life. It's true you may never get it, and live blinded, but its quite the risk…

People often forget, in their misplaced righteous anger, that abusers were abused. Commiters of violent crimes are not objects of hatred, but pity. A few horrible life experiences is all that separates you from them, if even that much.

And as for people coming at you with knives and such, "fighting for ones life". Do you honestly need to kill them to get away safely? Nope.

From: NaumanAkhlaQ
Thanks,

Thou shall not kill also implies to animals, this means that Christians should be vegetarians :confused:.

In my opinion? Absolutely. Do as the Buddhists do, live your life while trying to kill a little as absolutely necessary. For instance, when you boil water, microorganisms die. Now boiling water is somewhat of a necessity, so one must realize that one cannot live life without taking it to some degree.

From: rogue poser
your full of so much crap. Nagasaki and hiroshima alone outnumber the amount of deaths ever caused by Christianity and Judiasm combined.

that means more people have died because of science than any other cause.

and if you want to take the commandment literally as it was written, lets look at the hebrew word for kill and see what it actually means

the hebrew word for kill that is used in that sentence is

"ratsach"

looking up that word you would find that it means….

to murder, to slay, to kill
by means of PREMEDEITATION

/thread

KK, brian owned you already.

And I am not saying that Christianity is the only religion here am I? Alot of religions adopt said 'rule' if you will, and they do still kill in the name of their God.

From: Torrent of Flame
KK, brian owned you already.

And I am not saying that Christianity is the only religion here am I? Alot of religions adopt said 'rule' if you will, and they do still kill in the name of their God.

Rofl, I think all that's happened to the kid since he came in here was get owned.

And again, I gotta stress the importance of the difference between killing in the name of something and having something endorse you killing in its name.

I would say those who kill in the name of God (or Buddha, Here Krishna, Yahweh, etc) miss the point entirely. Completely and utterly.

It's only stupid because you make it stupid.

From: Ruroken
Right man, but who said it? Was it God (or however you want to name it) or was it a Jew with perhaps a political agenda :cool:



Islam is a religion of peace, as all true religions are. What your thinking of is a radical group who have misinterpreted the writings (aka fundamentalists). Christianity has them too, as I'm sure all religions do. Now they take different forms, but that does not change the fact that a) your perpetuating a harmful stereotype while displaying great ignorance and intolerance, and b) they are not Islamic. They are continually dismissed by the Islamic faith organization, and anyone who understands Islam.

If you go into a discussion on any subject, be it religion, politics or whats for dinner; attacking is never, ever, going to get anyone anywhere. So my advice is to stay out of these types of discussions until you can do that. You'll just make a bunch of people mad and look like an ignorant sheep.



And don't confuse The Great Spirit with his prophets, friends, and those who claim to be his friends ;)

I believe that on the topic of the religion of islam you are sadly mistaken. Had you done any actually research on the subject i think you would find that, yes there are peaceful muslims, but muslims that follow the koran strictly, not so much. I have deduced this from my own readings of the koran, and my visit to a local mosque as extra credit in my CC world religions class. If you would like to discuss the subject feel free to PM me, and i can offer my personal experiences at the mosque and refence many verses in the koran that were not kosher.(pun intended)

Otherwise, do some research and dont drink the kool-aid

From: rogue poser
I believe that on the topic of the religion of islam you are sadly mistaken. Had you done any actually research on the subject i think you would find that, yes there are peaceful muslims, but muslims that follow the koran strictly, not so much. I have deduced this from my own readings of the koran, and my visit to a local mosque as extra credit in my CC world religions class. If you would like to discuss the subject feel free to PM me, and i can offer my personal experiences at the mosque and refence many verses in the koran that were not kosher.(pun intended)

Otherwise, do some research and dont drink the kool-aid

XD I'm about to die laughing

Its common sense. God said to not kill on purpose. So you cannot go around and murdering people. But if its army to army then go ahead. But to me America is getting alot of sins (LOL). Afghanistan, Iraq, and then pakistan.

but no dude talibanz and al-qaedaz haz l33t nukez.

From: rogue poser
I believe that on the topic of the religion of islam you are sadly mistaken. Had you done any actually research on the subject i think you would find that, yes there are peaceful muslims, but muslims that follow the koran strictly, not so much. I have deduced this from my own readings of the koran, and my visit to a local mosque as extra credit in my CC world religions class. If you would like to discuss the subject feel free to PM me, and i can offer my personal experiences at the mosque and refence many verses in the koran that were not kosher.(pun intended)

Otherwise, do some research and dont drink the kool-aid

*sigh*

First of all: "kosher" is not generally associated with Islam, so I'm not sure where your getting this "pun" idea… :rolleyes: The word you were looking for is "halal" (kosher) or "haram" (not kosher).

How about you post your experiences right here. I too have been to a Mosque, and shared experiences with people of many faiths, and quite frankly I find your claims to be baseless accusations.

EDIT: Simply out of interest, your a Christian I take it, what denomination?

From: kingarabian
Its common sense. God said to not kill on purpose. So you cannot go around and murdering people. But if its army to army then go ahead. But to me America is getting alot of sins (LOL). Afghanistan, Iraq, and then pakistan.

Between the "War on Terror" and the "War on Drugs" the United States are racking up quite a tally, I agree…

From: Ruroken
*sigh*

First of all: "kosher" is not generally associated with Islam, so I'm not sure where your getting this "pun" idea… :rolleyes: The word you were looking for is "halal" (kosher) or "haram" (not kosher).

How about you post your experiences right here. I too have been to a Mosque, and shared experiences with people of many faiths, and quite frankly I find your claims to be baseless accusations.

EDIT: Simply out of interest, your a Christian I take it, what denomination?



Between the "War on Terror" and the "War on Drugs" the United States are racking up quite a tally, I agree…

you obviously missed the pun. kosher is related to jews. the pun was about the enmity held by the the muslim community to those of the jewish faith, just look at the middle east.

surah 4:89 They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

surah 9:123 O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

kill people who dont believe you? very peaceful indeed

My experience at the mosque was one of inequality between men and women, and frankly i found it very disrespectful. another woman from my college class went to the mosque to get extra credit, and she was in her car trying to leave the parking lot. There were 4 men chatting standing in her way. They noticed she was there and continued talking, without an attempt to get out of her way. At first i thought it was kinda funny, because thats something kids do to piss people off, but these were grown men…

i would classify myself as a Christian, but not of any denomination. I do not believe in eternal hell, nor do i believe in much of the end time propaganda spread by the organized church. I could use the etymology's of hebrew and greek words along with a concordance to explain in detail why i do not believe many of the mainsteam Christian beliefs, but your point of asking that pointed question was to lump me in with the masses that you see as mindless sheep.


EDIT : *almost forgot about this one*

4:76 Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak.

that one made me laugh the first time i read it. failed dichotomy is funny

From: rogue poser
you obviously missed the pun. kosher is related to jews. the pun was about the enmity held by the the muslim community to those of the jewish faith, just look at the middle east.

Mate, thats a loose association at best…

kill people who dont believe you? very peaceful indeed

Are you really going to make me go into the old testament… In terms of perceived intolerance these quotes from Islam and the quotes I could easily produce from the Old Testament are bedfellows.

My experience at the mosque was one of inequality between men and women, and frankly i found it very disrespectful. another woman from my college class went to the mosque to get extra credit, and she was in her car trying to leave the parking lot. There were 4 men chatting standing in her way. They noticed she was there and continued talking, without an attempt to get out of her way. At first i thought it was kinda funny, because thats something kids do to piss people off, but these were grown men…

Ah, see this is a CULTURAL problem, not a spiritual one. Traditionally in cultures across the globe women have been "less". Just as black people (and women, and Mexicans, and Chinese, annnnd the Japanese etc etc) were, and in some ways still are, "less" in the United States. As a culture, the west cannot claim to have no blood on their hands. "Dirty Negroes" and women being lesser is the same shit, different medium. Or say… those filthy job stealing Mexicans?

Hindsight is 20/20…

Never mind the fact that you have no idea who they are, where they come from, or why they are here. Intolerance will be met with equal or greater intolerance. After 9/11 there were cases of people attacking Sikhs. They thought they were Islamic, or just knew they came from "over there".

i would classify myself as a Christian, but not of any denomination. I do not believe in eternal hell, nor do i believe in much of the end time propaganda spread by the organized church. I could use the etymology's of hebrew and greek words along with a concordance to explain in detail why i do not believe many of the mainsteam Christian beliefs, but your point of asking that pointed question was to lump me in with the masses that you see as mindless sheep.

Actually, I was trying to get an idea of where you come from on a cultural and spiritual basis… not to lump you in with anything. If we both speak the same language, communication will be greatly aided, so to speak.

4:76 Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak.

I would say there is more than one way to do 'battle', the least of which is violence.

From: Ruroken
Now the question is, how does God/Buddha/Hare Krishna/Yahweh feel about that? No where in any scared text I have ever read does G/B/HK/Y say anyone should die (with the *possible* exception of the Old Testament. Note: I say GOD here, not prophets/spiritual leaders/"interpreters"… human error is a bitch :p).

That quote points to a great ill in today's western religion and base philosophy.

Doesn't the fact that the Old Testament contains this contradictive bullshit completely defeat the object of the commandment.

Thou Shall Not Kill…

But Stone your wife if she has an affair.
Stone your son if he doesn't follow your commands.
Stone your neighbour if he doesn't believe in god.
Stone gay people.

Its pretty pathetic that people haven't sort of opened their silly eyes. If the Old Testament was the word of God, why feel the need to change and modify it for present day..

Because the religion need's to fit in with so people will follow it..
I think if anyone truely, hand on heart follows a religion, they should be able to tell me the in's and out's about it and have a bloody good reason to follow it..

and I can't see that in any religion, I repeat ANY religion.

As for your "killing" being "promoted" check out Fitna when you get a minute..

http://www.themoviefitna.com/

Thanks! :):rolleyes:

From: Ruroken
I feel that killing someone in any case is not permissible. Not to drag this off topic, but it comes down to choice (among other things). When you kill someone, you make a choice for them. A very, very big choice. A choice that was never yours to make. You also make a choice for yourself, you choose to kill a fellow human and all that comes with it. This is why suicide is not the same as murder, it is your choice to make. Now if that choice is the right one or not is a different question. You still kill a human, and all that comes with it.

Now you might say that the other person made his or her choice when he or she committed whatever act that made you feel you had the right to kill him or her. Perhaps they killed and raped a child. A heinous act by anyone's standards. Did the child "deserve" to die? No. But neither do they. Lock them away for the rest of their lives, do what you have to do to sleep at night with the exception of torture or murder. I feel that making someone live after doing that is far worse then killing them. Imagine one day waking up and realizing the significance of what you had done, and then having to live with that.

This works both ways, because the day YOU wake up and realize the significance of what you've done, you need to live with that for the rest of your life. It's true you may never get it, and live blinded, but its quite the risk…

People often forget, in their misplaced righteous anger, that abusers were abused. Commiters of violent crimes are not objects of hatred, but pity. A few horrible life experiences is all that separates you from them, if even that much.

And as for people coming at you with knives and such, "fighting for ones life". Do you honestly need to kill them to get away safely? Nope.



In my opinion? Absolutely. Do as the Buddhists do, live your life while trying to kill a little as absolutely necessary. For instance, when you boil water, microorganisms die. Now boiling water is somewhat of a necessity, so one must realize that one cannot live life without taking it to some degree.

Why do I always state my opinion in the wrong way :p
I was trying to say god allows the government to set-up armies to keep world peace, and if needed to kill someone, BUT I prefer nobody is going to die.
I am against killing, you know.

Like Ruroken said:
You can kill with a God's name or the God tells you to kill is a big difference.
My only and truthfulness God doesn't wants to get people killed, he just want justice and he lets governments with their armies do it, that doesn't approve all actions of the governments since they are human, they can still make the wrong decisions.

From: samm
Its pretty pathetic that people haven't sort of opened their silly eyes. If the Old Testament was the word of God, why feel the need to change and modify it for present day..

You falsely assume God and humanity are static.

As for your "killing" being "promoted" check out Fitna when you get a minute..

http://www.themoviefitna.com/

Yeah, because leading by example is NEVER a good idea :rolleyes:

Believe in this and all will be well.

@Ruroken

How is the enmity and hostility from the muslim community in the surrounding Israeli territory a loose association to my pun… car bombings?
thats a bit more than a "loose association"

Like i said, i dont follow many mainstream Christian beliefs, so that means nothing to me. You did not dispute the fact that these verses in the koran encourage violence and murder, you simply attempted to shift some sort of burden of proof on me, assuming i adhere to the preconceived image you have of my belief system

The fact is, these verses encourage violence. That was my point, and those verses proved it. You have yet to dispute that fact.

Their intolerance and treatment toward women is based on the koran. The koran says that women are worth half a man… in addition it says you can have 4 wives, and that rubbing your hands in dirt is cleaner than touching a woman… Are these not a result of spiritual teachings? Their treatment of woman has nothing to do with their belief system?

Religions made just to control people with fear, so they'll do what the church says. Nowadays it's just an easymode for thinking.

From: rogue poser
@Ruroken

How is the enmity and hostility from the muslim community in the surrounding Israeli territory a loose association to my pun… car bombings?
thats a bit more than a "loose association"

Like i said, i dont follow many mainstream Christian beliefs, so that means nothing to me. You did not dispute the fact that these verses in the koran encourage violence and murder, you simply attempted to shift some sort of burden of proof on me, assuming i adhere to the preconceived image you have of my belief system

The fact is, these verses encourage violence. That was my point, and those verses proved it. You have yet to dispute that fact.

Their intolerance and treatment toward women is based on the koran. The koran says that women are worth half a man… in addition it says you can have 4 wives, and that rubbing your hands in dirt is cleaner than touching a woman… Are these not a result of spiritual teachings? Their treatment of woman has nothing to do with their belief system?

Hm, your right, I wasn't clear. (Your also partially right).

I was simply trying to point out that Christians are not at all as violent in the west (despite what the old testament has to say), in this day and age, despite how fundamentalist they are. There may still be the odd one, but for the most part they are tolerant to the point of not knocking people about. Why could the Islamic people not be the same way?

Yes these passages, as many passages throughout history allow for loopholes in the conscience so that people may be justified in killing. Does that mean that they are necessarily listened to? Does that mean that every Islamic person is inherently violent? No.

As for women, yes this is an issue, but one that is being addressed. Canada is running a big campaign right now with the message "women have rights here". In bus stops and such. Its a problem of education.

I just find your backhanded branding of a group as violent to be rather harsh and quick judgment of your fellow man. I suppose a lot of people are a little racist. And as for the pun… its still pretty loose in the context you put it in originally.

I'm done, because we do not have a true dialogue. Your hate is your problem, and I'm sorry it has to be that way. Absolute arguments and fundamentalism never got anyone anywhere good.

From: 99_ aka ian.
Believe in this and all will be well.

NOOOO I GET A DNS ERROR! WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME!!!!

night.

From: ZaSz
NOOOO I GET A DNS ERROR! WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME!!!!

night.

lol the church of google gives you a DNS error, you must be a yahooligan

From: TomTuff
lol the church of google gives you a DNS error, you must be a yahooligan

I had no need to do that, but i just did…

Yes Google can be a major pain at times, but i see no real problem with it.
[BANANA][/BANANA]

Google can be a pain at times. That is, if you can't type, don't have good internet, have a slow computer, or fail at internet searchage. Usually it is pretty great.