SRL Archive - News and General

Almost two years ago we were given a gift, and that is SCAR's ability to do more than just color functions, it was to combine easy and basic script-able functions with the power and ease of reflection while making simple scripts.

Almost four years ago I saw people who tried hard to create scripts with the best quality, precision, creativity, and determination that I'd ever seen in my entire life and it inspired me and changed my life forever… i.e. Wizzup? Essence miner, forefeathers, cavefighter… the list goes on and they're are so many more.

Now I ask you, why are people reverting to such basic means of solving a complex problem?

Because it is the easy way out, wouldn't it be more fun to combine reflection and color functions into one?

Fail safes are there for a reason and now that reflection is around I feel like people have forgotten.

Just my 2 cents.

From: IceFire908
I hate to be a double poster but I was reminded of something BenLand100 once said it was something like:

We need to find our own way to search for patterns and detect variables automatically when using reflection.

@BenLand100! I'm asking for your guidance if you're out there please help!

Most people don't actually use reflection, some do.
I haven't made a reflection script, but I am thinking of making a reflection VERSION of my woodcutter.

:)

T~M

I don't add failsafes cause it's not needed… And my scripts are most of time color/reflection mix together.

reflection is always broken! :'(

From: marpis
reflection is always broken! :'(

BenLand can fix it, but you can fix it too. It's called fail safes :norris:

From: IceFire908
Almost two years ago we were given a gift, and that is SCAR's ability to do more than just color functions, it was to combine easy and basic script-able functions with the power and ease of reflection while making simple scripts.

Almost four years ago I saw people who tried hard to create scripts with the best quality, precision, creativity, and determination that I'd ever seen in my entire life and it inspired me and changed my life forever…

Now I ask you, why are people reverting to such basic means of solving a complex problem?

Because it is the easy way out, wouldn't it be more fun to combine reflection and color functions into one?

Fail safes are there for a reason and now that reflection is around I feel like people have forgotten.

Just my 2 cents.

Hate to break your bubble, but when most people make scripts they don't look for the hardest way to do it.

From: NiCbaZ
Hate to break your bubble, but when most people make scripts they don't look for the hardest way to do it.

That's what is sad, quality over quantity. My opinion atleast, I appreciate yours though because I may be wrong.

From: IceFire908
BenLand can fix it, but you can fix it too. It's called fail safes :norris:

I hate to be a double poster but I was reminded of something BenLand100 once said it was something like:

We need to find our own way to search for patterns and detect variables automatically when using reflection.

@BenLand100! I'm asking for your guidance if you're out there please help!

+1! noidea <3 you now.

Here we go again…

I script reflection becuase I want the exp/cash, I could still do it color, but it would take so much longer? Time i don't have.

So, yeah. Easy way out.


Hai btw ^^

Then isn't that a quick fix?

Sorry I just want to discuss this more with everyone.

Fail idea imo. Reflection is flawless, why even bother backing it up? I have nothing against the idea of reflection-color hybrid scripts, but color failsafes are useless.

If you use reflection as the main method, why would you back it up with less secure methods? With reflection, your script has already determined whether or not it can continue.
And if you use color as the main method, why would you back it up with more secure methods? Why not just use the more secure methods as the main method, it would make a lot more sense. More efficient and reliable.

Either way, the only failsafes needed are timeouts or counters. Reflection will never fail.
Never.

Ever since i've heard of reflection i've stuck to it. I love it, and i think that Reflection on its own is way better than color on its own, but together, they own.

We have had a group of very skilled members make reflection, its a great tool. When we want to attract more member, get money/xp, and want the longest progress reports, why wouldn't we use this great tool?

From: marpis
reflection is always broken! :'(

Since when has it been always broken?

lordsaturn sums up some of my feelings also.

From: marpis
reflection is always broken! :'(

It's only broken for about 12 hours a week (when hooks are updated).

From: IceFire908
Almost two years ago we were given a gift, and that is SCAR's ability to do more than just color functions, it was to combine easy and basic script-able functions with the power and ease of reflection while making simple scripts.

Almost four years ago I saw people who tried hard to create scripts with the best quality, precision, creativity, and determination that I'd ever seen in my entire life and it inspired me and changed my life forever… i.e. Wizzup? Essence miner, forefeathers, cavefighter… the list goes on and they're are so many more.

Now I ask you, why are people reverting to such basic means of solving a complex problem?

Because it is the easy way out, wouldn't it be more fun to combine reflection and color functions into one?

Fail safes are there for a reason and now that reflection is around I feel like people have forgotten.

Just my 2 cents.

Couple things

1) I joined less than 2 years ago, but I remember seeing the release of forfeathers along with Harry's FightCaves (I think)? :p

2) Reflection definitely wasn't around when I joined

3) I completely agree with you :) I personally use a combination of color and reflection in my scripts. Reflection gets most of the job done, but color still has its uses.

From: lordsaturn
Fail idea imo. Reflection is flawless, why even bother backing it up? I have nothing against the idea of reflection-color hybrid scripts, but color failsafes are useless.

If you use reflection as the main method, why would you back it up with less secure methods? With reflection, your script has already determined whether or not it can continue.
And if you use color as the main method, why would you back it up with more secure methods? Why not just use the more secure methods as the main method, it would make a lot more sense. More efficient and reliable.

Either way, the only failsafes needed are timeouts or counters. Reflection will never fail.
Never.

I agree that failsafes when using reflection aren't needed, but every once in a while you'll find a problem that can be solved by color better than it can be solved by reflection. For instance, I believe some randoms are unsolvable with reflection? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just basing it on the fact that RSBot hasn't solved certain randoms and don't seem to be making an attempt to. And, as we know, if they are solvable by reflection it shouldn't take long to do it.

From: Shady?
Ever since i've heard of reflection i've stuck to it. I love it, and i think that Reflection on its own is way better than color on its own, but together, they own.

Which is why, in the end, SCAR/SRL > RSBot :)
*cough* We need to make improvements to our client to keep up *cough* Benland *cough*

From: Runescapian
I agree that failsafes when using reflection aren't needed, but every once in a while you'll find a problem that can be solved by color better than it can be solved by reflection. For instance, I believe some randoms are unsolvable with reflection? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just basing it on the fact that RSBot hasn't solved certain randoms and don't seem to be making an attempt to. And, as we know, if they are solvable by reflection it shouldn't take long to do it.

All of the randoms can be solved using reflection, it's just a question of whether or not we have the correct fields hooked to do so.

From: Runescapian
Which is why, in the end, SCAR/SRL > RSBot :)
*cough* We need to make improvements to our client to keep up *cough* Benland *cough*

What changes need to be made?

From: Runescapian
unsolvable with reflection? Correct me if I'm wrong

you stand corrected. and plz tell me which ones you think?

Edit: nerfed by method

So true.

No offense to those who use reflection, but it's really degraded the scripting abilities of our community. If you don't challenge yourself, how can you learn?

From: Smartzkid
So true.

No offense to those who use reflection, but it's really degraded the scripting abilities of our community. If you don't challenge yourself, how can you learn?

I dunno. I don't think that reflection has had anything to do with any degradation of scripting abilities. Do you have any examples to point to, or is this just your opinion?

From: Method
All of the randoms can be solved using reflection, it's just a question of whether or not we have the correct fields hooked to do so.

Ok, my bad. I guess I overestimated the ability of RSBot's devs and scripters :p

What changes need to be made?

One of the main reasons I used RSBot for a while was because of its client. Improvements over SMART:

- Uses MUCH less resources, 'Use Less CPU' option vs. SMART's FPS bar (#1 reason)
- A fully functioning 'User Input' button. As most of you know SMART's is buggy and you have to click it 5-10 times before you completely enable user input
- Ability to type while script is running along (With user input off – Great antiban if you're autoing while you're at the computer and check on the script every once in a while) along with the ability to enable user input while script is running (Useful if you're running, for instance, a fishing script and want to check out your exp while the script is waiting for fish)
- Very convenient debugger (IDs of things, etc., should be top priority other than use of CPU)
- Great system of organizing scripts/accounts (Not really a major issue, but the Account Manager feature, for instance, adds to the convenience)

Some other things that could be added:

- Ability to take screenshots within a script (last I checked you couldn't do this?)
- Maybe further join forces with Freddy and create an SRL based off of the client, instead of SCAR? Would make it much more noob-friendly :) (Leave an option for the normal SCAR though for those that don't use SCAR for Runescape)
- Going really deep and complex here now, but possibly a nice GUI that shows all your scripts running, and all clients running are hidden from view and in essence have 'Graphics disabled', but are revealed and graphics enabled if you click to check on it – Would be t3h s3x, agreed? :) (NOTE: Would only be useful if resource usage is fixed, seeing as not everyone has supercomputers :p)

Of course, at least a few of those suggestions are probably too complex or challenging to create, just throwing ideas out there :)


EDIT:

From: Smartzkid
So true.

No offense to those who use reflection, but it's really degraded the scripting abilities of our community. If you don't challenge yourself, how can you learn?

Quite honestly, I didn't come here to learn to program (even though it has spiked an interest) – most of us didn't. Some have been drawn in and become great scripters with great programming abilities, but if you're truly interested in giving yourself a challenge, why make cheats for Runescape? From what I understand, the better programmers on here that program outside of SRL consider SCAR's language rather noobish, right? If you're interested in furthering your knowledge of programming, do something more productive than make cheats for a small community of RS Botters – Or multitask and do both (preferred) :p Either way, with reflection, almost anyone can make a good script. And anyone with slightly more experience can make a fine, flawless, human-like script. Taking away the necessity of color scripting isn't putting a limit on anyone's ability to further their knowledge, it just forces them to go out and look for a different challenge – I'm sure anyone would agree that learning a language such as Java to the same extent as SCAR would be much more productive. Not that you can't do complex things with SCAR, but rather it's more beneficial to be profficient at another language. I mean, Scar scripts aren't going to make you a living :p

From: Runescapian

- Ability to take screenshots within a script (last I checked you couldn't do this?)

That one we do have. Take a look inside Debug.scar

From: senrath
That one we do have. Take a look inside Debug.scar

Ah, I see. It works for SMART too, right?

Would have been useful when making my RimmyWillowz for bug fixing :o

From: Runescapian
Ah, I see. It works for SMART too, right?

Would have been useful when making my RimmyWillowz for bug fixing :o

Yup. I use it in my Wine Telegrabber script.

From: lordsaturn
Fail idea imo. Reflection is flawless, why even bother backing it up? I have nothing against the idea of reflection-color hybrid scripts, but color failsafes are useless.

If you use reflection as the main method, why would you back it up with less secure methods? With reflection, your script has already determined whether or not it can continue.
And if you use color as the main method, why would you back it up with more secure methods? Why not just use the more secure methods as the main method, it would make a lot more sense. More efficient and reliable.

Either way, the only failsafes needed are timeouts or counters. Reflection will never fail.
Never.

Agree 100%, only time it fails is when its outdated , which takes hardly 1 day or so to update lol :P sometimes longer though it gets updated quite fast when its outdated.

Reflection improves knowledge. You can do things you couldn't think of with color.

Plus my hooks haven't been down that much at all.

From: lordsaturn
Fail idea imo. Reflection is flawless, why even bother backing it up? I have nothing against the idea of reflection-color hybrid scripts, but color failsafes are useless.

If you use reflection as the main method, why would you back it up with less secure methods? With reflection, your script has already determined whether or not it can continue.
And if you use color as the main method, why would you back it up with more secure methods? Why not just use the more secure methods as the main method, it would make a lot more sense. More efficient and reliable.

Either way, the only failsafes needed are timeouts or counters. Reflection will never fail.
Never.

Nothing will never fail, reflection has failed in the past and will fail again.

From: Runescapian
It's only broken for about 12 hours a week (when hooks are updated).



Couple things

1) I joined less than 2 years ago, but I remember seeing the release of forfeathers along with Harry's FightCaves (I think)? :p

2) Reflection definitely wasn't around when I joined

3) I completely agree with you :) I personally use a combination of color and reflection in my scripts. Reflection gets most of the job done, but color still has its uses.



I agree that failsafes when using reflection aren't needed, but every once in a while you'll find a problem that can be solved by color better than it can be solved by reflection. For instance, I believe some randoms are unsolvable with reflection? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just basing it on the fact that RSBot hasn't solved certain randoms and don't seem to be making an attempt to. And, as we know, if they are solvable by reflection it shouldn't take long to do it.



Which is why, in the end, SCAR/SRL > RSBot :)
*cough* We need to make improvements to our client to keep up *cough* Benland *cough*

I see your point but let me make another, are you driven by intellect or knowledge?

Which is more rewarding,

All the phats of RuneScape or the perfect script?

From: Smartzkid
So true.

No offense to those who use reflection, but it's really degraded the scripting abilities of our community. If you don't challenge yourself, how can you learn?

I agree!:spot:

From: Runescapian
Ok, my bad. I guess I overestimated the ability of RSBot's devs and scripters :p


One of the main reasons I used RSBot for a while was because of its client. Improvements over SMART:

- Uses MUCH less resources, 'Use Less CPU' option vs. SMART's FPS bar (#1 reason)
- A fully functioning 'User Input' button. As most of you know SMART's is buggy and you have to click it 5-10 times before you completely enable user input
- Ability to type while script is running along (With user input off – Great antiban if you're autoing while you're at the computer and check on the script every once in a while) along with the ability to enable user input while script is running (Useful if you're running, for instance, a fishing script and want to check out your exp while the script is waiting for fish)
- Very convenient debugger (IDs of things, etc., should be top priority other than use of CPU)
- Great system of organizing scripts/accounts (Not really a major issue, but the Account Manager feature, for instance, adds to the convenience)

Some other things that could be added:

- Ability to take screenshots within a script (last I checked you couldn't do this?)
- Maybe further join forces with Freddy and create an SRL based off of the client, instead of SCAR? Would make it much more noob-friendly :) (Leave an option for the normal SCAR though for those that don't use SCAR for Runescape)
- Going really deep and complex here now, but possibly a nice GUI that shows all your scripts running, and all clients running are hidden from view and in essence have 'Graphics disabled', but are revealed and graphics enabled if you click to check on it – Would be t3h s3x, agreed? :) (NOTE: Would only be useful if resource usage is fixed, seeing as not everyone has supercomputers :p)

Of course, at least a few of those suggestions are probably too complex or challenging to create, just throwing ideas out there :)


EDIT:



Quite honestly, I didn't come here to learn to program (even though it has spiked an interest) – most of us didn't. Some have been drawn in and become great scripters with great programming abilities, but if you're truly interested in giving yourself a challenge, why make cheats for Runescape? From what I understand, the better programmers on here that program outside of SRL consider SCAR's language rather noobish, right? If you're interested in furthering your knowledge of programming, do something more productive than make cheats for a small community of RS Botters – Or multitask and do both (preferred) :p Either way, with reflection, almost anyone can make a good script. And anyone with slightly more experience can make a fine, flawless, human-like script. Taking away the necessity of color scripting isn't putting a limit on anyone's ability to further their knowledge, it just forces them to go out and look for a different challenge – I'm sure anyone would agree that learning a language such as Java to the same extent as SCAR would be much more productive. Not that you can't do complex things with SCAR, but rather it's more beneficial to be profficient at another language. I mean, Scar scripts aren't going to make you a living :p

…and neither can RuneScape right?

I can make and I have made flawless scripts with color.
Before you think reflection > Color beat tara's progress report. of 300+ hours(360?)

Reflection makes it to easy.
Walking is always troubles I could've released 5 scripts a day if I hadn't to do with walking.
Color is the thing where we are different on, when reflection breaks color goes on!
Sometimes we have to update the color because they made a change in a color.
Reflection breaks always, at an update.

Just saying Color > Reflection.
The difference is can you handle it or not?
If you like color go with color.
If you like reflection go with reflection.

I think reflections beats the purpose of scar, then go to rsbot or scionbot or nexus or w/e.
Color & Reflection or Color.

Just my 2 cents, I hope I didn't offend any of you with this statement better said opinion.

Ah I remember the KYAB forums :) good times…
Only reason why I am not using it is because I have to download TortoriseSVN to download it, and because when I did try downloading it the ref rev were updated once per hour…

From: IceFire908

I see your point but let me make another, are you driven by intellect or knowledge?

First, let's make sure our definitions are the same.

Intellect - the capacity for thinking and acquiring knowledge
Knowledge - acquaintance with facts

Going by definitions alone, I'd be kind of torn in between, I guess. Sure it's nice to have knowledge but what good is it if you don't have much intellect to hold that knowledge? Intellect is nice but what use it is without knowledge? So…I dunno.

Which is more rewarding,

All the phats of RuneScape or the perfect script?

I'm guessing this should tie in with your other question, but I don't quite see how :p

Personally, I'd take the Phats. Of course, many factors apply (were they achieved through fair play, would anyone willing to buy an account with that much wealth and take that RWT risk, exactly what would that perfect script be, etc.). I believe you made the Phats side of the deal too much (I'd guess all the Phats would be equivalent to about 30x max money, not to mention the fact I'd be the only one to own them, meaning I'd dictate the prices) :p

…and neither can RuneScape right?

What does that have to do with this?


EDIT:

From: Hermen
I can make and I have made flawless scripts with color.
Before you think reflection > Color beat tara's progress report. of 300+ hours(360?)

99% Impossible. Why? That's 15 days. Nowadays Jagex has an update every week. The only way to do so would be to create a reflection chickenfighter (or just use a universal fighter) and wait until Jagex announces that they won't have updates for two weeks and begin right after the update >_<

EDIT: That's a pointless way to do it anyway. Any script that can run for 24 hours without making any players false has the ability to run forever (like Tara's chickenkiller). It wouldn't be hard to create something like that with reflection, but all those type of scripts are already done by color, so why bother.

Reflection makes it to easy.
Walking is always troubles I could've released 5 scripts a day if I hadn't to do with walking.
Color is the thing where we are different on, when reflection breaks color goes on!
Sometimes we have to update the color because they made a change in a color.
Reflection breaks always, at an update.

Reflection is broken for not even 12 hours a week (That's the time it takes someone with an updater to notice we need an update and update in a matter of minutes, I think). That's 7.1% of your autoing time if you auto 24/7. Chances are, now that army autoing is dead, you don't auto more than 10 hours a day. You lose virtually nothing by using reflection.

Just saying Color > Reflection.
The difference is can you handle it or not?
If you like color go with color.
If you like reflection go with reflection.

False. Reflection with its weak points replaced with color is the best. And those weak points are relatively few, if at all.

I think reflections beats the purpose of scar, then go to rsbot or scionbot or nexus or w/e.
Color & Reflection or Color.

Just my 2 cents, I hope I didn't offend any of you with this statement better said opinion.

RSBot - Weak community, relatively bad devs, BCEL != Reflection
Scionbot - I thought that was primarily color? Either way, I hear that it can barely be considered a bot yet; it's still basically in beta version afaik.
Nexus - Pay bot. 'Nuff said.


Honestly, we'll just be arguing till somebody provides us with some sort of fact (can't think of what that could be :\).

Only thing I can think of is a competition between the color devs and the reflection devs - make the same script, see which one gets better exp/h, cash/h, etc :)

From: Runescapian
First, let's make sure our definitions are the same.

Intellect - the capacity for thinking and acquiring knowledge
Knowledge - acquaintance with facts

Going by definitions alone, I'd be kind of torn in between, I guess. Sure it's nice to have knowledge but what good is it if you don't have much intellect to hold that knowledge? Intellect is nice but what use it is without knowledge? So…I dunno.


I'm guessing this should tie in with your other question, but I don't quite see how :p

Personally, I'd take the Phats. Of course, many factors apply (were they achieved through fair play, would anyone willing to buy an account with that much wealth and take that RWT risk, exactly what would that perfect script be, etc.). I believe you made the Phats side of the deal too much (I'd guess all the Phats would be equivalent to about 30x max money, not to mention the fact I'd be the only one to own them, meaning I'd dictate the prices) :p

What does that have to do with this?


EDIT:


99% Impossible. Why? That's 15 days. Nowadays Jagex has an update every week. The only way to do so would be to create a reflection chickenfighter (or just use a universal fighter) and wait until Jagex announces that they won't have updates for two weeks and begin right after the update >_<

EDIT: That's a pointless way to do it anyway. Any script that can run for 24 hours without making any players false has the ability to run forever (like Tara's chickenkiller). It wouldn't be hard to create something like that with reflection, but all those type of scripts are already done by color, so why bother.



Reflection is broken for not even 12 hours a week (That's the time it takes someone with an updater to notice we need an update and update in a matter of minutes, I think). That's 7.1% of your autoing time if you auto 24/7. Chances are, now that army autoing is dead, you don't auto more than 10 hours a day. You lose virtually nothing by using reflection.


False. Reflection with its weak points replaced with color is the best. And those weak points are relatively few, if at all.



RSBot - Weak community, relatively bad devs, BCEL != Reflection
Scionbot - I thought that was primarily color? Either way, I hear that it can barely be considered a bot yet; it's still basically in beta version afaik.
Nexus - Pay bot. 'Nuff said.


Honestly, we'll just be arguing till somebody provides us with some sort of fact (can't think of what that could be :\).

Only thing I can think of is a competition between the color devs and the reflection devs - make the same script, see which one gets better exp/h, cash/h, etc :)

Aye, so it is competition that drives you? :norris:

From: IceFire908
Aye, so it is competition that drives you? :norris:

Yes. Though, when I get bored competing with pixels, the programming aspect keeps me here until I find competing enjoyable again :garfield:

From: Runescapian
Yes. Though, when I get bored competing with pixels, the programming aspect keeps me here until I find competing enjoyable again :garfield:

'Nuff said:spot:

From: Runescapian


Quite honestly, I didn't come here to learn to program (even though it has spiked an interest) – most of us didn't. Some have been drawn in and become great scripters with great programming abilities, but if you're truly interested in giving yourself a challenge, why make cheats for Runescape? From what I understand, the better programmers on here that program outside of SRL consider SCAR's language rather noobish, right? If you're interested in furthering your knowledge of programming, do something more productive than make cheats for a small community of RS Botters – Or multitask and do both (preferred) :p Either way, with reflection, almost anyone can make a good script. And anyone with slightly more experience can make a fine, flawless, human-like script. Taking away the necessity of color scripting isn't putting a limit on anyone's ability to further their knowledge, it just forces them to go out and look for a different challenge – I'm sure anyone would agree that learning a language such as Java to the same extent as SCAR would be much more productive. Not that you can't do complex things with SCAR, but rather it's more beneficial to be profficient at another language. I mean, Scar scripts aren't going to make you a living :p

I think this is where the division is. The people that came to SRL and fell in love with the challenge of scripting I think will agree with you Ice. I think the ones that came to get rich off Runescape, and kept that mentality after learning to script a bit will probably disagree with your opinion.

Although I am not active on Runescape or SRL anymore, I personally stopped playing Runescape after starting to script, because I had more fun making scripts than playing Runescape. I found it challenging and rewarding in a way that Runescape almost never is. In Runescape success is determined 99% of the time by time spent, not skill. Scripting, although I was never really all that good at it, gives you a chance to excel at something in your right, in a way that most people haven't. Perhaps the only aspect of Runescape comparable, in the sense that it requires skill of some sort, is getting a fire cape. Not everyone who plays Runescape can script, but I'm sure they can sit for hours grinding until they have enough cash to buy a party hat. But what then? How is that success? For me, the success, and the good feeling, always came from the challenge that came from scripting.

tl;dr I agree with you Ice.

I think it's sad that no one sees the importance of this thread http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32916 except me (and takes it seriously) :norris:

Honestly, I have to say that Reflection takes most of the fun and challenge out of scripting. For me, walking is a form of art- especially when you're relying on DDTMs to walk for you. This art is finding the best landmarks possible and testing to ensure these landmarks don't get screwed up easily.

Reflection walking is… *click* *copy* *paste*. Repeat.

Nonreflection NPC finding is getting the best mixture of colors possible to make an ATPA and hopefully get the NPC in the first shot.

Reflection NPC finding is… *walk near npc* *click* *copy* *paste*.

It oversimplifies what it means to script and greatly devalues the ability to have a 100% working script. It also throws away a good bit of SRL work, because RadialWalk, FindRoadColor, etc. are now obsolete with it.

Honestly, I'm more than happy to add it to my scripts, but only after I make the DDTM, TPA, etc. failsafes. After all, no Ref-only script can run for more than a week straight due to weekly updates; scripts that can bypass reflection and live on with a 95-99% success rate without it can go for weeks.

Also, a few problems with reflection:

• We rely on RSBot for our hooks. What if they died?
• What if Jagex overhauled RS to give everything an 'Object' type [everything would have the same ObjectID] and different behaviors? That would kill most of reflection, as it would most ref scripts.
• In MechScape, we won't have reflection on the first day, month, or maybe even year- depending on how hard devs work on it. We will have color, DTMs, and TPAs from the first second.
• In any other game, there is no reflection tool. This confines you to scripting SOLELY for RuneScape if you want ref. Good luck with that.
There's a very complex framework that has to stand strong for reflection to function. If any leg of that framework breaks, it all comes tumbling down and dies. Color is stable and needs updates far less often. Find a clever way to integrate both ref and old methods in to a script, with a 'ref works' boolean variable that skips the ref parts if false, [really easy. Think about it for a bit. ;)] and you will weather any situation that comes your way; colors change, update colors- ref still works. Hooks change, switch ref support off inside the script and let it run until the hooks are back up. "But ref is so much easier and that won't happen" If you want easy, wait for someone else to make the script, then.

I can see where you're coming from when you see it takes the challenge and fun out of scripting, which is perfectly acceptable. Everyone is free to try out their options and make a choice whether or not to use color, reflection, or both to accomplish whatever scripting task they want.

We have not used hooks from RSBot for over six months, if not longer. Perhaps when reflection was first started and nobody had any experience with client hacking at SRL, RSBot's hooks were used, but we definitely do not use them now and have not for a long, long time.

Your hypothesis for "Object types" is completely naive, considering you probably haven't looked at the client's structure whatsoever. There is no way they could implement this "concept" for over 300 classes, it would be ridiculous and stupid to even attempt to do so.

There are already traces of MechScape in the current RuneScape client, so it's fairly obvious that design elements present in RuneScape will be present in MechScape. Because of this, classes such as those representing players, NPCs, nodes, etc. will most likely make it into that release also. From there, it will just take time to refactor and find out what the other classes do.

Not all games are created in Java. If they were, reflection might be a viable option for all of them, depending on how they were implemented client-side. Just because there are not many tools available for other Java games does not mean that they are impossible to make.

From: Method
I can see where you're coming from when you see it takes the challenge and fun out of scripting, which is perfectly acceptable. Everyone is free to try out their options and make a choice whether or not to use color, reflection, or both to accomplish whatever scripting task they want.

Why I dislike a pure reflection-based script: It requires very little skill/practice to make, and works perfectly 95% of the time.

Yet, that still isn't the main reason. As it was so excellently put in another post, it is like a drug. When you use it a bit, you want to use it more, and more, and more in your scripts to the point at which you can barely operate/you lose the will to try without it.

We have not used hooks from RSBot for over six months, if not longer. Perhaps when reflection was first started and nobody had any experience with client hacking at SRL, RSBot's hooks were used, but we definitely do not use them now and have not for a long, long time.

Ah, ok.

Your hypothesis for "Object types" is completely naive, considering you probably haven't looked at the client's structure whatsoever. There is no way they could implement this "concept" for over 300 classes, it would be ridiculous and stupid to even attempt to do so.

Possibility, not hypothesis. And yes, I know that this is near impossible to do, considering how different everything is. Yes, there is a way they could, it would just be a horrible blob of tens of thousands of lines of code. :p

I've not looked at the client's structure itself. However, I have been able to make a decent map of a portion of the class hierarchy, methods, etc. in RuneScape.

If you want a more plausible solution, what if Jagex updated the hooks once every day?

There are already traces of MechScape in the current RuneScape client, so it's fairly obvious that design elements present in RuneScape will be present in MechScape. Because of this, classes such as those representing players, NPCs, nodes, etc. will most likely make it into that release also. From there, it will just take time to refactor and find out what the other classes do.

Yes, but in that time, color-based code will have a huge advantage, considering it can navigate better than a blind bat.

Not all games are created in Java. If they were, reflection might be a viable option for all of them, depending on how they were implemented client-side. Just because there are not many tools available for other Java games does not mean that they are impossible to make.

Yes, but would you be willing to make reflection for every Java game out there just so a few other scripts could be made? No. If you're going to make a SMART and ref. hooks for every Java game that exists, then you can have fun with that. I'll more than happily stick with hybrid scripts [with the failsafes developed and tested first], thank you.

Responses in red.

If the game was updated every day, I'd open up Eclipse, navigate to my project, and hit run every single day to get the output for you guys. It takes less than 15 seconds to update, including downloading the client, so it wouldn't deter me very much.

When autoing for other Java games becomes popular, perhaps then you will see some bots out there that allow automation using reflection. Until then, RuneScape will be the only game I work with.

EDIT: I'd love to see the map of the hierarchy you created of the client too, if it isn't just a UML diagram created through some IDE.

From: Method
If the game was updated every day, I'd open up Eclipse, navigate to my project, and hit run every single day to get the output for you guys. It takes less than 15 seconds to update, including downloading the client, so it wouldn't deter me very much.

Eclipse. Good IDE. XD

When autoing for other Java games becomes popular, perhaps then you will see some bots out there that allow automation using reflection. Until then, RuneScape will be the only game I work with.

But until said tools are developed, color ftw.

EDIT: I'd love to see the map of the hierarchy you created of the client too, if it isn't just a UML diagram created through some IDE.

I'd be more than happy to get it for you if you could wait a few months. I created it out of boredom in my Java programming class; we're given a week to do 15 projects that I was done with in around 2 days. I left it on the network drive there. XD. [If you don't believe me, quite frankly, I don't really care. I know it's the truth. ^^]

*Lengthening message to at least 3 characters*

If you remember in a few months to grab it, I'd still love to see it then. :p

From: Method
If you remember in a few months to grab it, I'd still love to see it then. :p

Alright. I'll make a note of it in OneNote. XD

Here:

James | IceFire908 says:
I'm trying to convince people to use it wiser though
Lancinate says:
Why?
James | IceFire908 says:
Reflection breaks very often
James | IceFire908 says:
yet it is very fast
James | IceFire908 says:
color never fail yet it is very slow
James | IceFire908 says:
together you have reliabilty and speed
Lancinate says:
You need a good combo
James | IceFire908 says:
Yep

What's the use of this bump?
You've posted your opinion, and people read this thread before.

Reflection is not officially supported by SRL, nor is it in SRL. You can't expect everyone to start using combinations.
SRL alone (without Reflection) works just fine for about any script.

From: Wizzup?
What's the use of this bump?
You've posted your opinion, and people read this thread before.

Reflection is not officially supported by SRL, nor is it in SRL. You can't expect everyone to start using combinations.
SRL alone (without Reflection) works just fine for about any script.

You deny the potential of SCAR.

From: IceFire908
You deny the potential of SCAR.

+1.

Wizzup? I have always respected your judgment, yet you have rarely returned the favor :confused:

KYAB anyone?

From: IceFire908
You deny the potential of SCAR.

Denying the potential of SCAR?
Sorry, but What?
Fakawi and I (and other developers) made SCAR big when it nearly died out, and now you tell me I am denying the (possible) potential of SCAR?

In fact, BenLand100 and I created the first Reflection Library including path walking, and the currently library is still partially based on it.
Denying SCAR's potential? Don't make laugh.
Are you trolling…?

From: IceFire908
Wizzup? I have always respected your judgment, yet you have rarely returned the favor :confused:

I always considers everyone's opinion with great care, but I don't respect you last post because you are accusing me without any solid grounds to stand on. I'm not going to respect a useless insult.


Finally, my view on your idea:

The idea you had is a cool aspect, try to combine SRL's potential of hardly ever breaking and Reflection's potential to be 100% sure about what a script is actually doing…

It isn't directly a bad idea, in my opinion. However, the fact that is hasn't been picked up a lot, indicates that something may be wrong with the idea.

Perhaps the idea isn't very practical, especially when it comes to debugging?
After all, when one has made a successful SRL script, why even bother adding Reflection, if it doesn't have a big impact on the performance nor stability? :)

Yeah Wizzup he's trolling, he's been doing that alot lately.

From: The Claw
Yeah Wizzup he's trolling, he's been doing that alot lately.

He really has.

You say I have no grounds to stand on, only because SRL is a place of mystery.

I only know what SRL members do, we are blocked out from the exciting stuff.

Why don't you prove me wrong Wizzup? :(

The word games you all play with are very amusing.

Anyway, my thoughts on this.

I don't see why you STILL are (most of you anyway) so much against using reflection.

Would you rather spend hours and hours getting a color script to work "flawlessly",as some of you put it, only to have to update it due to Jagex messing something up?

There are less people autoing in RS. It's just not worth it anymore. Some of us still do it for the "fun" of it or w.e but the truth is there, less people are autoing. If you guys were more "open-minded" when it comes to reflection it would just make your lives easier when it comes to scripting lol..

but of course you won't. :)

From: IceFire908
You say I have no grounds to stand on, only because SRL is a place of mystery.

I only know what SRL members do, we are blocked out from the exciting stuff.

Why don't you prove me wrong Wizzup? :(

I did in my previous post. You may want to (re-)read it rather than creating a false illusion of me disregarding your previous points. :)

From: Hugolord
The word games you all play with are very amusing.

Anyway, my thoughts on this.

I don't see why you STILL are (most of you anyway) so much against using reflection.

Would you rather spend hours and hours getting a color script to work "flawlessly",as some of you put it, only to have to update it due to Jagex messing something up?

There are less people autoing in RS. It's just not worth it anymore. Some of us still do it for the "fun" of it or w.e but the truth is there, less people are autoing. If you guys were more "open-minded" when it comes to reflection it would just make your lives easier when it comes to scripting lol..

but of course you won't. :)

Your thoughts are well known and appreciated. They are however, in my opinion, incorrect.
Every JaGeX update breaks Reflection scripts.
AFAIK, My last essence miner version worked for over one year without ever breaking. (It broke a few months ago, I can fix it in 15 minutes most likely. EDIT: It's mainly compiling errors due to new SRL's.)

Sure, Reflection can be handy at times, and I don't recall claiming otherwise in a long time… I've made some RuneCrafters with it some time ago, but I got very annoyed the script broke every update, so I discontinued it. Of course, I wouldn't have made this nature crafter without Reflection. (It used gnome gliders and glory amulets.)

We have serious potential available and you as the leader of this community I demand you take it seriously or prove me completely wrong in every aspect.

I mean you no disrespect, but you accuse me of not knowing things that are hidden from me. :rolleyes:

From: IceFire908
We have serious potential available and you as the leader of this community I demand you take it seriously or prove me completely wrong in every aspect.

I mean you no disrespect, but you accuse me of not knowing things that are hidden from me. :rolleyes:

I don't quite follow. No one has publicly stood out against your idea, yet you blame other people for it's failure?
As for forcing me to take it seriously, why do you think you can force me to work on your idea?

From: Wizzup?
I don't quite follow. No one has publicly stood out against your idea, yet you blame other people for it's failure?
As for forcing me to take it seriously, why do you think you can force me to work on your idea?

It is laziness that corrupts us, some more than others. You are the least.:norris:

Look into my idea and try it.

From: Wizzup?
I did in my previous post. You may want to (re-)read it rather than creating a false illusion of me disregarding your previous points. :)



Your thoughts are well known and appreciated. They are however, in my opinion, incorrect.
Every JaGeX update breaks Reflection scripts.
AFAIK, My last essence miner version worked for over one year without ever breaking. (It broke a few months ago, I can fix it in 15 minutes most likely. EDIT: It's mainly compiling errors due to new SRL's.)

Sure, Reflection can be handy at times, and I don't recall claiming otherwise in a long time… I've made some RuneCrafters with it some time ago, but I got very annoyed the script broke every update, so I discontinued it. Of course, I wouldn't have made this nature crafter without Reflection. (It used gnome gliders and glory amulets.)

Yeah, well I know that reflections breaks every time Jagex updates.
But look at it this way. Some people who are against reflection say it's too easy and that working with just color is much more challenging. Fine. Well those people can work together and work on a reflection auto-updater.
win/win?
If that's not possible then we can all learn to do it manually and I'm sure after every update someone can quickly fix reflection as we have so many people on SRL.
and yeah Wizzy your Ess miner was indeed flawless but it wasn't a script that required a LOT of walking either.

From: Hugolord
and yeah Wizzy your Ess miner was indeed flawless but it wasn't a script that required a LOT of walking either.

Some one gets it :eek:

It is only a matter of time…

begin
  if (not (LoggedIn)) then
    Exit;
  if (not (WalkToTile(1459, 5954))) then  //Tile walking, Most relaible.
  begin
    WriteLn('Tile walking failed, switching to DDTM detection.');
    if (not (FindDTMRotated(DDTM, ....))) then //DDTM, 2nd most relaible.
    begin
      WriteLn('DDTM detection failed! switching to DTM detection...');
      if (not (FindDTMRotated(DTM ....))) then //DTM with tol, 3rd most relaible
      begin
        WriteLn('DTM detection failed! switching to Symbol detection...');
        if (not (FindSymbol('Bank'...))) then //Symbol, 4th most relaible.
        begin
          WriteLn('Symbol detection failed! switching to map angle detection...');
          if (not (AngleWalk(90, 50...))) then //Angle walk, 5th. Fails when angle detection fails.
          begin
            WriteLn('Map angle detection failed! Blind clicking...');
            {--------------------------------}
            WalkTo(585, 42); //Blind Click, never fails but is risky.
           {if (not (WalkTo(585, 42))) then
            begin
              WriteLn('Blind click failed! All fail safes exhausted!');
              WriteLn('Logging out player...');
              LogOut;
              Exit;
            end
            else
            begin
              WriteLn('Blind click successful!');
              WalkTo(585, 42);
            end;}
          end
          else
            WriteLn('Map angle detection successful!');
        end
        else
        begin
          WriteLn('Symbol detection successful!');
          WalkTo(Bank);
        end;
      end
      else
      begin
        WriteLn('DTM detection successful!');
        WalkTo(Bank.MM);
      end;
    end
    else
    begin
      WriteLn('DDTM detection successful!');
      WalkTo(Bank.MM);
    end;
  end
  else
    WriteLn('Tile walking successful!');
  if (not (OpenBankReflection('FEB'))) then
  begin
    WriteLn('Bank detection by reflection failed! switching to color detection...');
    if (not (OpenBankFast('FEB'))) then
    begin
      WriteLn('Color detection failed! All fail safes exhausted!');
      LogOut;
      Exit;
    end
    else
      WriteLn('Color detection successful!');
  end
  else
    WriteLn('Reflection detection successful!');
  WriteLn('Opened bank!');
end;

16 - 5

My vote won Wizzup?

http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32916

From: Wizzup?
I don't quite follow. No one has publicly stood out against your idea, yet you blame other people for it's failure?
As for forcing me to take it seriously, why do you think you can force me to work on your idea?

I don't ever recall forcing anyone to do this.

Sorry for the gravedig, but I found this interesting

From: WT_Fakawi

Even so, It is my profound believe that Scar will always be the safest way to auto, not because it is the fastest, but because you are actually doing something entirely different: you are sequencing colors and comparing bitmaps.
Thats all we do, searching, grabbing, comparing, clicking, timing….Colors and Bitmaps.

I found that very interesting.
Straight from the "What got you started cheating" thread

btw I didn't put in the bolds.
It was in the thread.

From: noidea
Sorry for the gravedig, but I found this interesting

1 month isn't a real gravedig:o

I find it ignorant to use reflection's / injection's 'capabilities' over color as an argument in a debate like this, as the point of comparison isn't infact Reflection Vs Color, but Reflection Vs Human and Color Vs Human. It is true that through reflection one knows more things than color by default, but the goal is to achieve what we humans are doing in the game, and that, is based on eye-sight and memory :) Color based scripts can achieve that - there is no need to know things about the client at a point where a legit player wouldn't know them, e.g skill XP without checking the tab etc…

From: n3ss3s
I find it ignorant to use reflection's / injection's 'capabilities' over color as an argument in a debate like this, as the point of comparison isn't infact Reflection Vs Color, but Reflection Vs Human and Color Vs Human. It is true that through reflection one knows more things than color by default, but the goal is to achieve what we humans are doing in the game, and that, is based on eye-sight and memory :) Color based scripts can achieve that - there is no need to know things about the client at a point where a legit player wouldn't know them, e.g skill XP without checking the tab etc…

I feel completely different. The client is right there for us to use. We need to take advantage of it. LOOK AT NEXUS/IBOT. They use both color and some sort of injection. If jagex lets people download there client, we must take advantage. Make them work hard to stop cheating. And we all script to learn some programming. Reflection/java is the window.

From: kingarabian
I feel completely different. The client is right there for us to use. We need to take advantage of it. LOOK AT NEXUS/IBOT. They use both color and some sort of injection. If jagex lets people download there client, we must take advantage. Make them work hard to stop cheating. And we all script to learn some programming. Reflection/java is the window.

If it was so, the situation would be completely different, but the end users just like you and me will just call a WalkToTile, no Java involved - Ben does the Java. I simply stated that Reflection Vs Color is an invalid argument.

From: n3ss3s
I find it ignorant to use reflection's / injection's 'capabilities' over color as an argument in a debate like this, as the point of comparison isn't infact Reflection Vs Color, but Reflection Vs Human and Color Vs Human. It is true that through reflection one knows more things than color by default, but the goal is to achieve what we humans are doing in the game, and that, is based on eye-sight and memory :) Color based scripts can achieve that - there is no need to know things about the client at a point where a legit player wouldn't know them, e.g skill XP without checking the tab etc…

Lol at that,

People can memorize their xp level and know it with out checking their tab, color can't do that because it would have to see it. Thus potentially giving away that the game operator isn't a human.

Just something I grabbed from one of my hybrid scripts that I'm almost done with:

  H := Hybrid;
  Ro := ReflectionOnly;
  if ((H) or (Ro)) then
  begin
    H := Hybrid;
    Ro:= ReflectionOnly;
    P := GetMyPos;
    ReflectionInUse := ((P.X > -1) and (P.Y > -1));
  end;
  if (ReflectionInUse) then
  case Random(5) of
    0: Players[CurrentPlayer].Level[0] := GetSkillLevel('skill');
    else
      Players[CurrentPlayer].Level[0] := GetMySkill(0, True);
  end
  else
    Players[CurrentPlayer].Level[0] := GetSkillLevel('skill');

1 out of 5 chance of checking the tab… thus more human like. (memorization)

Bottom line, you guys just see that as too much work… I see it as an art… and I will continue to perfect it until others open their eyes to the potential in front of them rather than saying "color solves everything" or "reflection is to easy" or "color is stupid and old, use reflection only".

Disclaimer, I didn't bump this… don't blame me.

People can memorize their xp level and know it with out checking their tab, color can't do that because it would have to see it. Thus potentially giving away that the game operator isn't a human.

Humans don't know the XP before they see it either :)

From: n3ss3s
Humans don't know the XP before they see it either :)

Yeah but they could have memorized it beforehand lol.
lol @ using reflection = ignorance btw