SRL Archive - News and General

Well over at RSCA Baby has brought to our attention something very interesting. He has (discovered?) what we believe to possibly be one of Jagex's bot detection/monitoring methods. I'm not quite sure what I think about it yet, so go take a look at the thread and discuss what you guys think here…

http://www.rscheata.net/forum/index.php/topic,47941.0.html

I don't believe it (In a way I don't think that actually happened)…

From: Dr D. Dervish
I don't believe it (In a way I don't think that actually happened)…

Lol what? There's numerous people that say they've tried it and have the same results as baby. And that there are these invisible "watchers" in autoing hotspots around RS.

I think it definitely is something interesting.

If anyone has a player they know is flagged that is consistantly getting randoms, go look for one and start autoing by one. See if it follows you or how it behaves.

We definitely could mess with these things and see if they do anything. If they do and they have IDs then reflection could pick them up and we could auto 'around' them, so to speak.

Doesn't make sense, why would Jagex need to put a NPC in the game to watch\follow people? Pretty sure they can monitor this without putting an invisible NPC in the game 8-).

This is just stupid.

I can see it being plausible. But we really can't be for sure until we can see it our selves. I have more to comment but don't have time, will update later. ;)

~Camo

I have a HIGH flagged toon, I'll check it myself… soon as I'm unbanned xD

i just had a very strange thing happening in runescape.
i was doing 'something' with an account and i dont know why but i turned on the reflectiontest.
and some invisible NPC was following me everywhere, it also had an otherphysicalobject id

im not getting too specific about it but i have a screenshot i dont know what to do with it but i think im going to post it somewhere non public, but i just wanted to hear your opinion.

to be sure it was not an error in the script i turned it off and on again just to be sure lol (im sure it worked fine but it was so dang strange).
so i walked from 'somewhere' to 'an other somewhere' both are cities in rs and the think kept on following me even stairs up and down lal…

i have ran ibot many hours with reflectiontest on but this is the first thing i have seen such thing…

just the first post, in case we lose the thread. Sounds strange.

~RM

They don't really need a camera to know what you are doing, but they can have one, maybe a 'camera option' for all active players, which is represented as an NPC for possible things the client might have to know…

sounds quite wierd must be a easier way for them to catch us lol…

I just read their whole thread. I think its possible just Null npcs that happen to follow you. But I still want to do some tests.

From: Narcle
I just read their whole thread. I think its possible just Null npcs that happen to follow you. But I still want to do some tests.

I read that too, but I remember seeing someone said they seen them in places where NPCs have never been visible, as far as they knew.

how could we test though???

Well I can't seem to run the reflection test on lite so I'm not sure how we would test. Any ideas?

RSBot? I don't know exactly what iBot's 'reflectiontest' is but RSBot does do all of on screen IDs, NPCs, etc… With lots of other information.

Is it different than iBot's reflection test?

From: HyperSecret
RSBot? I don't know exactly what iBot's 'reflectiontest' is but RSBot does do all of on screen IDs, NPCs, etc… With lots of other information.

Is it different than iBot's reflection test?

Hmm thats a good idea, anyone know for sure if it will do the same thing or what?

Reflection now has an "AreWeInteracting" function. It might be able to pick up the NPC ID. Hmm, or someone could run GetNPCs etc.

I think you are taking this way to far. The only things Jagex by default logs are MouseClick Coordinates and Intervals (Time between Clicks). Server knows the position the Player is standing. Any fool could make out a bot from the pattern thus generated. I love the conspiracy, but guys, Invisible NPC'S? Its just coords and clicks, thats all there is to it.

Haven't we prooven Jagex wrong time and again? If Jagex has such a smart botdetection mechanism, they would have banned all of our Players long ago.

[personal note]
Jagex had to revert to manual ban to extinguish my army. They would never have found me if it weren't for my IP being all over this place. (Or maybe it was the Player named "WT-Fakawi" that gave it away, lol)
[/personal note]

Jagex can't beat us. If we play clever, use good scripts, keep Players clean, and SRL stays nr1, we will never be caught.

From: WT-Fakawi
I think you are taking this way to far. The only things Jagex by default logs are MouseClick Coordinates and Intervals (Time between Clicks). Server knows the position the Player is standing. Any fool could make out a bot from the pattern thus generated. I love the conspiracy, but guys, Invisible NPC'S? Its just coords and clicks, thats all there is to it.

Haven't we prooven Jagex wrong time and again? If Jagex has such a smart botdetection mechanism, they would have banned all of our Players long ago.

[personal note]
Jagex had to revert to manual ban to extinguish my army. They would never have found me if it weren't for my IP being all over this place. (Or maybe it was the Player named "WT-Fakawi" that gave it away, lol)
[/personal note]

Jagex can't beat us. If we play clever, use good scripts, keep Players clean, and SRL stays nr1, we will never be caught.

+1

Although personally I think Jagex is really dumb and they don't really care about bots anymore.

How could they stop us?
Ip bans.
Make all their randoms in the murdaut format.
Check how many accounts we logins we have a day and if that exceeds the normal amount == ip ban.

They could make our life REALLY hard, but they don't.

From: WT-Fakawi
I think you are taking this way to far. The only things Jagex by default logs are MouseClick Coordinates and Intervals (Time between Clicks). Server knows the position the Player is standing. Any fool could make out a bot from the pattern thus generated. I love the conspiracy, but guys, Invisible NPC'S? Its just coords and clicks, thats all there is to it.

But what about the Invisible NPC's following you?

From: WT-Fakawi
I think you are taking this way to far. The only things Jagex by default logs are MouseClick Coordinates and Intervals (Time between Clicks). Server knows the position the Player is standing. Any fool could make out a bot from the pattern thus generated. I love the conspiracy, but guys, Invisible NPC'S? Its just coords and clicks, thats all there is to it.

I agree, but what if this was just "one" of the ways they watch? I can kinda see the point, it could just go with everything else to make a exact point if botting or not. It's "plausible" right now, everything is up in the air.

From: WT-Fakawi
Jagex can't beat us. If we play clever, use good scripts, keep Players clean, and SRL stays nr1, we will never be caught.

100% Agree ;)

~Camo

Hmm this sounds interesting. On my server I was randomly spwaning npcs from the client, and I spawned alot of invisible npc's. Most of them are nulls though.

Well I for the most part agree with you Fakawi. I've noticed that over here we you guys have put more thought and reasoning into it, and over at RSCA it's mainly a bunch of noobs freaking out and saying something along the lines of "OMGzors we've beat Jagex we are da l33t!!"

Just pointing out how much more mature/(better) we are here at SRL :)

So Fakawi, responding to what you said, if we make our scripts to randomize clicking and clicking intervals then we should in theory not get banned or have a very slim chance of it?

And also, I've just about 90% decided with Fakawi's statement that this is just some null NPC's/programming mistakes or whatever.
But then again, what if it is a method to tell if we are flagged or something along those lines. What if…

Alright, right now we know they can be made client side(based kingarabian's post) they can follow you, and can not. Jagex does not need these to track us so why would they? Its a bug.

edit: heres a pic from rscheata:

Is it possible its a mod using an invisible NPC's to just watch you for a human point of view, then take the action whether or not to ban you?

No way whorehay. No way they would do this. They can do it without having some "imaginary" character following you.

I highly doubt this happened.

It's very possible that there are leftover NPCs from testing or ones that haven't been implemented yet, but I agree with the opinion that it's unlikely that they're used for cheating detection. It's a nice find, though.

i think its quite possible that Jagex were implementing live 'beta' tests into the game, just invisibly. They are probably making another quest or something that involves a npc that follows you. In ex. 'The dorgashan' (spelling) but still…

If I remember correctly though, they say that they come and go, they will be there then they won't be and they aren't all on the same world. I know JaGex has their 'testing' servers so they can exclude things from different servers/worlds but I would assume you would find these in the general area on several or most worlds if they were just left over NPCs or something. If they were left over they would be there 24/7 until they deleted them.

Just a thought.

They can also use these npcs to somehow throw off your script.

It's funny how some people think Jagex employees would waste their time following individual autoers around, I suppose it makes them feel special to think there's someone out there to get them..

There are tonnes of people online all the time and tonnes of cheaters too, do you really think they'd bother manually supervising random peoples accounts or to follow some random persons account around with some invisible character, atleast I'd imagine they have some actual work to do too, not just run after cheaters.

My guess would be that it's some random glitch. What about if that person had a cat or something (if they still exist in RS, I recall those things following you around) and he put it away but some magic happened and there was some invisible "NPC" following him around..?

From: TViYH
No way whorehay. No way they would do this. They can do it without having some "imaginary" character following you.

I highly doubt this happened.

You highly doubt this happened lol, that makes no sense??? It's proven by many people that it isn't just happening to Baby…


@hypersecret, thats a very good point.

Is it possible that… These are the "beta tests" of replacements for the randoms they'll take away ?

Or am I just being stupid.

From: GoF
It's funny how some people think Jagex employees would waste their time following individual autoers around, I suppose it makes them feel special to think there's someone out there to get them..

There are tonnes of people online all the time and tonnes of cheaters too, do you really think they'd bother manually supervising random peoples accounts or to follow some random persons account around with some invisible character, atleast I'd imagine they have some actual work to do too, not just run after cheaters.

My guess would be that it's some random glitch. What about if that person had a cat or something (if they still exist in RS, I recall those things following you around) and he put it away but some magic happened and there was some invisible "NPC" following him around..?

Not necessarily that they are actual people on the other side, maybe they are a '2nd' stage to catching an autoer or something like that. Maybe the first step is mouse clicking, time intervals, etc… and once they suspect you that way, you then have a 'camera' character follow you or something like that.

I am not fully saying that I strongly believe one way or another, but I think we should test it like i stated earlier.

omfg i have been having this feeling for ages as if like they could be 1 of the npc's nere were you say wcin etc like a lil imp

wow i have thought of this for a while now weird

also this might be the for of "flagged" and like when you dont answer the sandwhich bitch she teleports you this thing might have the same method

From: HyperSecret
Not necessarily that they are actual people on the other side, maybe they are a '2nd' stage to catching an autoer or something like that. Maybe the first step is mouse clicking, time intervals, etc… and once they suspect you that way, you then have a 'camera' character follow you or something like that.

I am not fully saying that I strongly believe one way or another, but I think we should test it like i stated earlier.

+1
Thats what I meant by mod, I guess I didnt correctly state it.

Well has anyone figured out another way to "see" these things besides nexus? Because the reflectiontest script doesn't seem to be working for me on nexus lite.

From: Mjordan
Well has anyone figured out another way to "see" these things besides nexus? Because the reflectiontest script doesn't seem to be working for me on nexus lite.

Yes.

1. Get a 508 source and 508 client; start spawning random npc's.

2. Maybe rsbot? I dont know.

Also it is possible for a player to turn invisible. I do it on my server to. You can also change your character into an npc. (Methods from the client). So it is possible that one of jagex's members change into an npc/invisble and spy because its all in the client.

@kingarabian, yes but we can't personally do that on the actual RS worlds can we.

From: Mjordan
@kingarabian, yes but we can't personally do that on the actual RS worlds can we.

We cant. But we know jagex can ;).

Wow sometimes I'd be playing, like, all by myself in a world just killing chickens and I would feel like…like someone, or something, was there. Just there, neither good nor bad, just watching me, timing my clicks, checking my repatitiveness, graphing my stats and how I got them with my mouseclicks and mouse movments versus other characters. Don't ask me how I knew, I just knew, and now I know I knew right, cuz when you knew, you know.

Pfff, so a bug follows you around? Maybe its the stray dog from Varrock. Come on guys get realistic, Jagex doesn't need to waste more server power making characters that follow you around invisibly.

I don't think it's true, like cause said. If it were it woul dbe kinda creepy though :P

Bug or not, there are definitely inivisible NPCs following people around. I saw about 3-4 different screenshots (from different people, I think) of these things on RSBot. And yes, use the RSBot client to check for them. To enable the debugging for them, just enable Debug > NPCs.

MY GOD! THEY'RE COMING OUT OF THE TREES!!
I find it hard to believe that they have the manpower to follow around random characters. And if they're automated, then why bother having a character?

Think about seriously, if this were true then why has no one been banned?

This is obviously a either a glitch or just some un-perfected part of the game that is being over analyzed because runescape wasn't made to be opened up in some weird reflection program thing.

From: IceFire908
Think about seriously, if this were true then why has no one been banned?

This is obviously a either a glitch or just some un-perfected part of the game that is being over analyzed because runescape wasn't made to be opened up in some weird reflection program thing.

What do you mean no one has been banned :confused: Plenty (more than usual, actually) people have been banned within the past couple weeks.

EDIT: Hmm….1999 posts. Well, I guess I'll make the big 2k one tomorrow :p

In the scaperune random event. The balloons are npc's but they dont show up on the mini map ;).

And those ghasts to in the mort-barrows.

From: Runescapian
What do you mean no one has been banned :confused: Plenty (more than usual, actually) people have been banned within the past couple weeks.

EDIT: Hmm….1999 posts. Well, I guess I'll make the big 2k one tomorrow :p

Actually very true, awhole lot of my army was banned along with a temp ban on my bros main (86-92str).

From: cause
Actually very true, awhole lot of my army was banned along with a temp ban on my bros main (86-92str).

Yup, 3/4 of my pure ess miners got temp bans. The one that didn't I had only started autoing on about 2 days before.

Since there is proof that jagex mods go around manually banning people (Mage Arena, yews, other "hot spots"), I don't see why they wouldn't use this so they could see who they belived to be botting, then ban them. Since most people botting would logout if they saw a jagex mod, this would be a good way for them to hide..

From: [-jesus-]
Since there is proof that jagex mods go around manually banning people (Mage Arena, yews, other "hot spots"), I don't see why they wouldn't use this so they could see who they belived to be botting, then ban them. Since most people botting would logout if they saw a jagex mod, this would be a good way for them to hide..

Thats actually a very good point. I'm still unsure what to think about this. I say if I see one following me around I'm gonna take a couple days break on that account just in case.

I'm thinking this is all a glitch, blame familiars and other following pets.

Ignore it. Nothing big really.

From: cause
Actually very true, awhole lot of my army was banned along with a temp ban on my bros main (86-92str).

From: Runescapian
Yup, 3/4 of my pure ess miners got temp bans. The one that didn't I had only started autoing on about 2 days before.

What were you using?

From: IceFire908
What were you using?

I was autoing 24/7. I was expecting a ban of course, but regardless that means they're still banning people. Besides me, there have been people who say they're getting banned autoing < 8 hours a day.

From: Runescapian
I was autoing 24/7. I was expecting a ban of course, but regardless that means they're still banning people. Besides me, there have been people who say they're getting banned autoing < 8 hours a day.

So were you using SCAR, iBot, rsbot what?

From: IceFire908
So were you using SCAR, iBot, rsbot what?

Mostly RSBot, Scar/SRL for one day while RSBot needed an update, why?

From: Runescapian
Mostly RSBot, Scar/SRL for one day while RSBot needed an update, why?

I would blame RSBot

From: IceFire908
I would blame RSBot

What's the difference between RSBot and SMART? And who wouldn't get banned being online at least 20 hours a day for a whole week…

And again, I'm not the only one who's been banned. A good amount of people from both SRL and RSBot have been banned.

At least 10 people have made threads about their bannings since 1/28 - http://www.srl-forums.com/forum/banned-rs-f322.html?f=322

I'm guessing within those, about 10 more people have revealed that they were banned without making a thread. And then, don't forget about those guys that have ~10 posts and have access to Jr. Member scripts, and who don't bother to post that they've been banned.

From: Runescapian
What's the difference between RSBot and SMART?

A lot of things… and the 'masses' of people were probably using rsbot too, but I honestly don't think the bannings and rsbot and/or srl/smart are related in anyway to this stuff anyways…

From: IceFire908
I would blame RSBot

+1

From: IceFire908
A lot of things… and the 'masses' of people were probably using rsbot too, but I honestly don't think the bannings and rsbot and/or srl/smart are related in anyway to this stuff anyways…

The only reasons more people get banned from RSBot is:

1) Reflection tends to fail less (SRL reflection has its limitations, and color isn't as perfect, from my experiences anyway), thus scripts run longer

2) People who want to use an army would generally use RSBot, seeing as you can run way more RSBots than SMARTs, thus, more armies vs. single players get banned there

3) RSBot has a much bigger community (90% leechers though): 46k registered users for SRL, 36k for RSBot, but probably half of SRLs aren't even Jr. Members, and 3/4 of them aren't active. And SRL has been around a while longer.

So obviously RSBot should have some more people complaining about banned accounts. But proportionally, it's about the same.

Anyway, I'm getting offtopic >_< I'd agree with you on how they might not be related, I don't really know what to make of these things. I was trying to point out that people are still getting banned when you said no one was getting banned :p

From: Hugolord
+1

See above^^

EDIT: Why is it that SRL hates RSBot and RSBot hates SRL? I defend each one on the other's forums, but why don't we make peace and work together? :)

It's because people are locked into the mindset that "their program" is the best and the only one that's usable. People aren't willing to change that mindset very easily.

People just abuse RSbot more, thus get banned more basically. But I'm not saying that these "invisible npc's" have anything to do with recent bannings on the rise. Just that this could be one of the detection methods.

I was using SCAR, killing chickens. I was only doing about 12 hour days on my guys though, thats why it came as a bit of a surprise (usually get bans when you get to about 75+ str, not 65ish). I kinda have my own "when I'll get banned" system going, and just recently it was broken, not really sure if it coincides with this though.

From: cause
I was using SCAR, killing chickens. I was only doing about 12 hour days on my guys though, thats why it came as a bit of a surprise (usually get bans when you get to about 75+ str, not 65ish). I kinda have my own "when I'll get banned" system going, and just recently it was broken, not really sure if it coincides with this though.

You confused me, by broken you mean that you surpassed when you thought you would get banned, or that you were banned before you though you would be? Also, how long does it take to get 75 strength from killing chickens lol?

From: Runescapian

EDIT: Why is it that SRL hates RSBot and RSBot hates SRL? I defend each one on the other's forums, but why don't we make peace and work together? :)

I never said it would anything about hate, I merly said rsbot and srl are two different things and you can't use both then say it cuz of SRL.

From: IceFire908
I never said it would anything about hate, I merly said rsbot and srl are two different things and you can't use both then say it cuz of SRL.

I never said it was SRL, and on the flip side, you can't just say it was RSBot (even though it probably was, not because it's a bad bot though, just because I didn't auto 'smart') ;)

I'm just saying that you can still get banned from botting, from any program (esp. if, as in my case, you auto 24/7).

What I think:

The followers - invisible JMods watching you closely if you're flagged or have just done a very inhuman action, like what blizzard do if you auto but just in secret.

The invisibles which have the same IDs as things around them: Traps for reflection scripts. No human should click on it, since it's invisible, but if a reflection script is coded to say, mine rock ID 1, and all actual rocks are gone or its close to the invisible object, it would try to mine the invisible.

Kinda freaky, the thought of invisible police following you watching your every move…wait, thats America :eek:

From: Mjordan
You confused me, by broken you mean that you surpassed when you thought you would get banned, or that you were banned before you though you would be? Also, how long does it take to get 75 strength from killing chickens lol?

I mean I got banned before I expected to.
@ The Claw, the more I think about it, the more I would tend to agree with you.

From: cause
I mean I got banned before I expected to.
@ The Claw, the more I think about it, the more I would tend to agree with you.

Ah alright I see.

@Claw, are you being serious or sarcastic lol?

What's the difference between RSBot and SMART?

RSbot uses Injection, SMART/Reflection uses Reflection

From: [-jesus-]
Since there is proof that jagex mods go around manually banning people (Mage Arena, yews, other "hot spots"), I don't see why they wouldn't use this so they could see who they belived to be botting, then ban them. Since most people botting would logout if they saw a jagex mod, this would be a good way for them to hide..

exactly my thoughts this is how they gather there evedence the thing might only folloow you for like 15-20mins

sorry for the double post but here is a pic, thias is what i found on the reflection test


you can see 2 invis "Nps", 1 following the player, and one behind the flax wheel.
any comments/more information on this?

Very interesting Scaper! Is that your screenie? Or one you got from RSbot or RSCA?

From: Mjordan
Ah alright I see.

@Claw, are you being serious or sarcastic lol?

Serious, lol

From: The Claw
Serious, lol

Alright was just making sure lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9r-8IibFiU&NR=1

From: Rasta Magician
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9r-8IibFiU&NR=1

I wonder what Jagex would do to counter SRL.

just makes me wonder…

Nice find Rasta. Could be true maybe?

From: Mjordan
Nice find Rasta. Could be true maybe?

i would definitely think so. Also proves that jagex DOES monitor mouse movements then

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
i would definitely think so. Also proves that jagex DOES monitor mouse movements then

~RM

We've already known that for ages. They have classes in the client that monitor client focus and mouse and key movements using listeners (and have had those for ages).

From: Method
We've already known that for ages. They have classes in the client that monitor client focus and mouse and key movements using listeners (and have had those for ages).

humm. as far as i knew, what had been proven was that they monitored clicks, not moves.

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
humm. as far as i knew, what had been proven was that they monitored clicks, not moves.

~RM

Yes thats what I thought, only clicks. But how does that video prove that they monitor movements also?