SRL Archive - News and General

Read this thinking "what if this passes, could Jagex actually sue us for copyrights?" Its quite possible if this is allowed to go through.

Blizzard Entertainment on Monday won a legal battle against MDY Industries, a maker of software that allows gamers automate the advancement of their World of Warcraft (WoW) characters.

The decision, if allowed to stand, could diminish consumers' already limited ownership rights over the software they buy. It could also leave consumers liable for significant financial penalties in the event of legal action.

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"Stunningly, this means that 'cheating' while playing a computer game can expose you to potentially huge statutory damages for copyright infringement," said EFF staff attorney Corynne McSherry in a blog post about the ruling.

Blizzard sued MDY to stop it from selling a program called Glider, which lets Blizzard customers play WoW without being at their computers. Use of such programs violates Blizzard's terms of use under its end user license agreement. Blizzard would typically pursue a breach of contract claim against EULA violators, but in this case it sued for secondary copyright infringement and contract interference under the theory that loading a copy of WoW into a computer's memory represents copyright infringement.

In siding with Blizzard, the judge has accepted its position that MDY's actions should be judged under copyright law rather than contract law. This matters because the potential damages are much higher under copyright law.

"The decision makes anybody much more easily liable for copyright infringement when what they're doing isn't copyright infringement," said Sherwin Siy, staff attorney at Public Knowledge, a public interest advocacy group that filed an amicus brief in support of MDY. "Just by crafting an End User License Agreement cleverly, a software company takes the matter out of the realm of contract and put it into the realm of copyright."

"There are several bad things that can happen as a result of this ruling," said Lance C. Venable, a partner at Venable, Campillo, Logan & Meaney P.C., the law firm representing MDY. "What the ruling does is it allows software manufacturers to have vast powers in the EULA to control how their software is used by end users beyond the terms of a contract. It allows software developers to create their own triggers for copyright infringement, ones they wouldn't have had before this decision."

Granting such subjective power to software developers goes against the notion of an objective statute that clearly defines copyright infringement, said Venable.

There are some additional matters to be dealt with in the case, but once those are resolved, Venable said he's planning to appeal the ruling to the Ninth Circuit Court.

In a blog post, former law professor William Patry, senior copyright counsel for Google (writing as a legal scholar rather than as a representative of Google (NSDQ: GOOG)), explained that the judge managed this sleight of hand – moving the dispute into the copyright realm – by finding that the WoW game "even though sold over the counter, was licensed not sold." He called the court's finding "a chilling extension of control by copyright owners of software over copies of programs they have sold."

In wondering how the court could justify its decision, Patry suggested perhaps the judge was offended because MDY's software allows behavior the court regards as cheating. "If so, God help us if law is being reduced to such subjective, nonstatutory grounds," he said.

Quote from:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/virtualworlds/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=209100284

Wouldn't they have already done that if they could?

If JaGeX did that then I would have to pay (lets say…) 20 bucks each month like… *counting on my fingers* forever! Even those 50K leechers would be sued?

From: Zytex!
If JaGeX did that then I would have to pay (lets say…) 20 bucks each month like… *counting on my fingers* forever! Even those 50K leechers would be sued?

There is NO way jagex would even THINK of suing everyone… just make examples of a few high profile people.

Blizzard just has a giant stick up their ass.

They might, but they really cant because most macorers are like 5 years old people who really dont understand anything about law. Maybe they could sue freddy1900 but I dont really think so… or hope so.

They could sue RSBot, but not SRL. Blizzard got away with it because now apparently loading something in your ram is an act of copying (So does that mean that we break the law every time we play any game :duh:)

This is a retarded law-suit, one that should have been thrown out.

MDY Industries was making money from this autoing software right? That means we're pretty much in the clear, because Scar, SRL, and SRL Forums is free. It wouldn't make sense for Jagex to sue us because what would they get?

Unless Jagex just comes unhindged, we should be safe. Infact, I think the black market folks are safe too, because you can't realy make enough for it to be worth Jagex's time/money.

One last thing. Im kind of thinking that if Jagex wanted us down, we would be. I know you all say "Fagex cbf with us" and all that jazz, but i think its a concious decision on thier part to let us live.

Jagex is from uk i dont think there is any laws for playing online games over here or if tey tried to get it it wouldnt stand

I'd like to point out the date on that article. July 16, 2008. This is pretty old news, and I'm pretty sure the decision stood.

scar is a colour clicking program, not a runescape bot.

From: jakeyboy29
scar is a colour clicking program, not a runescape bot.

I agree.
I dont think what we do is severe enough to get a lawsuit.

The only reason the people are getting sued is because there SELLING the program… (I believe)

Thank God I live in the Netherlands. A judge stated in a pretty recent verdict(?) that RuneScape goods are actually goods which can be traded (and, in that case, stolen). Means that gold selling is legal here as it is a good with actual value? :sasmokin:

part of the reason that blizzard is suing them is (and i think this was touched upon earlier, but):

Mr Donnelly says his tool does not infringe Blizzard’s copyright because no “copy” of the Warcraft game client software is ever made. Blizzard however does not feel the same and said the tool infringes copyright because it copies the game into RAM in order to avoid detection by anti-cheat software.

which isn't even close to what SCAR does.

Mr Donnelly is the guy who made the program (glider) in case you were wondering

From: Macros
part of the reason that blizzard is suing them is (and i think this was touched upon earlier, but):



which isn't even close to what SCAR does.

Mr Donnelly is the guy who made the program (glider) in case you were wondering

what does smart do then?

From: jakeyboy29
what does smart do then?

takes a "picture" of runescape and still use the colors and stuff(like java ids) that jagex sends you and clicks them… not injection like the glider did.

I am a HUUGEEEE fan of Blizzards games.
They're doing this for one reason.

Money.


Every person they can ban for any hacks, the banned user will surely go out and buy another copy. I myself have done so with Diablo 2. The more banned users = more dedicated users = more CD keys sold = more cash.

It's all about the money. No one cares about their players.

From: senrath
I'd like to point out the date on that article. July 16, 2008. This is pretty old news, and I'm pretty sure the decision stood.

True but I heard a similar ruling was made the 10th. I haven't found the full details yet but I have looked for a good article.

Well, this shouldn't happen to us. Jagex would only lose money by suing SRL.

Think -

- SRL gets no revenue == they can't sue for much
- If SRL gets shut down, they lose a TON of memberships (think of all the RS Members scripts that are used, and are some of the most popular too)
- In the long run, it'd be a major loss

Now, going after something like NeXus and iBot (are they still running?) would be sensible :p

Thats such a bunch of bs what blizzard is doing. I actually like(d) blizzard, but this is just unreasonable. It's very stupid that they think loading the copy onto ram is illegal, still doesn't make sense that they would sue since there are numerous ways a copy is created, like loading the game, creates a copy on the temporary memory for example. Scar will never be stopped because it is simply a program CLIENT, not specifically made for anything ;)

~thed

From: thedetro125
Thats such a bunch of bs what blizzard is doing. I actually like(d) blizzard, but this is just unreasonable. It's very stupid that they think loading the copy onto ram is illegal, still doesn't make sense that they would sue since there are numerous ways a copy is created, like loading the game, creates a copy on the temporary memory for example. Scar will never be stopped because it is simply a program CLIENT, not specifically made for anything ;)

~thed

Did you read any of the thread?
Thats not the issue AT ALL!
It's botting, just like we do, for World of Warcraft.
Anything you said above makes no sense.

Besides. Every game I own I have made copies of the images of the CD's and mounted them through ISO programs. That's not illegal at all since I own copies of the game.

From: Luski14
Thats not the issue AT ALL!

Well I wouldn't say it isn't any of the issue at all. Blizzard is suing to stop botting/make money for sure, but their excuse/the reason they can get away with something lame like that is this whole deal about loading the game into you RAM etc. The botting program under question, (Glider), loads an additional copy of WoW on the computer, to avoid bot-detection software. Blizzard is saying that this is illegal because the people who play WoW do not "own" the game, they have only bought a "lease", and similar crap like that…

Any way they can make more money…but yeah, we are safe, as we are learning orentiated, the SCAR is not made for only RS [nor does it mention RS anywhere in SCAR anymore, I think], and because it is freeware.

If Jagex ever tried to sue my ass I'd go to a bank, get a lot of money, get a good lawyer, sue Jagex for millions for harassing me :p

How could they sue us, SCAR is not made for runescape :) There are very little RS functions in Scar ;)

I think we're fine since we don't mess with their code.

From: NiCbaZ
How could they sue us, SCAR is not made for runescape :) There are very little RS functions in Scar ;)

No, but they could try to sue SRL. That said, if they did they'd just end up losing money, since there is next to nothing we could fork over.

i think the concern is that they (jagex) might see it as a win, since they will be making more money now that less people are botting. this is of course stupid as many people in SRL are also members, and many of those are only playing rs because they can bot, (ie they wouldn't be members/playing rs still if there was no botting). who knows, jagex has already proven that they are stupid, maybe bots scare away 2 yr olds because they don't talk? wouldn't put it past jagex =p

(but i still don't think they can sue SRL and win)

Actually, if this ruling were to apply to Runescape, Jagex could sue every single player for million of dollars per time playing Runescape. If loading it into RAM is copyright infringement, downloading the client to your hard drive (signed) or RAM (unsigned) to play it is copyright infringement too. In fact, NVidia and ATI could probably be sued since they don't make an effort to not duplicate the picture of the Runescape client (copyright Jagex of course) which is being sent out the VGA port to your monitor. (Not preventing the spread of copyright material is also criminal according to various BitTorrent tracker cases).

[spam]So who's up for copyright reform? Join the Pirate Party of your local country! (US Pirate Party | International Pirate Parties)[/spam]


Edit:

From: irc.pirate-party.us #USPirateParty
<~Channel6> The Blizzard v Glider case only applied to Blizzard's trademark, and it only applies when you MODIFY a game when in RAM.

Blizzard is a much bigger company than Jagex, if Blizzard lost a lawsuit then it wouldn't be much of a loss, Jagex don't have as much money to risk.

(I may have slightly got addicted to WoW lately :P)

EDIT:

From: NiCbaZ
How could they sue us, SCAR is not made for runescape :) There are very little RS functions in Scar ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think theres actually NO Runescape functions in SCAR, its just SRL was the great addon developed for use on Runescape.

From: Richard

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think theres actually NO Runescape functions in SCAR, its just SRL was the great addon developed for use on Runescape.

SCAR has these:

RS2 specific functions

function rs_GetUpText: string;
Gets the text displayed in the upper left corner of the screen.

function rs_GetUpTextAt(x, y, TextLength: Integer): string;
Gets the text with the specified length (TextLength) (in UpText font) from the coordinates x, y. Check the UpText chars for where you have to pick the y coordinate (the top pixelrow of the char. For the x coordinate pick the column where the first pixel of the character occurs. 

procedure rs_DeleteUID;
Deletes the UID file.

function rs_DeleteUIDEx(Folder: string): Boolean;
Searches for the uid file in the folder you enter and return true if the file was found and deleted.

function rs_FindMMColors(Color: Integer): TIntegerArray;
Returns all colors on the minimap that are similar to the entered color, using an advanced color comparison method. 

function rs_OnMinimap(x, y: Integer): Boolean;
Returns true if a coordinate is on the minimap.

It's just that most of them are overridden by SRL or just not used.

From: senrath
SCAR has these:

RS2 specific functions

function rs_GetUpText: string;
Gets the text displayed in the upper left corner of the screen.

function rs_GetUpTextAt(x, y, TextLength: Integer): string;
Gets the text with the specified length (TextLength) (in UpText font) from the coordinates x, y. Check the UpText chars for where you have to pick the y coordinate (the top pixelrow of the char. For the x coordinate pick the column where the first pixel of the character occurs. 

procedure rs_DeleteUID;
Deletes the UID file.

function rs_DeleteUIDEx(Folder: string): Boolean;
Searches for the uid file in the folder you enter and return true if the file was found and deleted.

function rs_FindMMColors(Color: Integer): TIntegerArray;
Returns all colors on the minimap that are similar to the entered color, using an advanced color comparison method. 

function rs_OnMinimap(x, y: Integer): Boolean;
Returns true if a coordinate is on the minimap.

It's just that most of them are overridden by SRL or just not used.

Wow, didn't know about them. Well you learn something new every day :). But yeah most things that are originally in SCAR are a bit more wider ranged, while SRL functions are mainly focused on Runescape.

The only people Jagex could sue would be the actual owners of SCAR or whatever bot you so choose to use. Script makers/users would be fine aside from the normal account banning.

My opinion:
SMART\Reflection Illegal, I think!
SCAR doesn't cost. Legal!
SCAR does not mention RuneScape anywhere,
Only RS, which could mean:
Rainy Shower
Random Sh:):)
Or any two words beginning with R-S Legal!
SCAR only breaks ONE in-game rule Legal!
Hopefully no-one has a criminal record here Legal!
There. Correct me if I'm wrong, thanks.

– BadProcessor

Sorry ive not read the thread but if you actually read the Glider forums you would see that they haven't won yet and are still deciding on it. Judge Campbell is going to make a decision this week.

From: hamish909
Sorry ive not read the thread but if you actually read the Glider forums you would see that they haven't won yet and are still deciding on it. Judge Campbell is going to make a decision this week.

Not fully yet, just a small matter before.

I doubt we have much to worry about because this seems to be the main problem and giving them their right to sue-

the theory that loading a copy of WoW into a computer's memory represents copyright infringement.

From: BadProcessor
My opinion:
SMART\Reflection Illegal, I think!

SMART/Reflection are not illegal in any way.
They do not alter the coding of the game, the client, or mess with any server-sided functions. They merely use what is on the screen before them.

From: almost
I doubt we have much to worry about because this seems to be the main problem and giving them their right to sue-

That isn't really the problem either. Its that Glider has a bot that is specificly design to break their ToS of using automated programs. As it is said here, SCAR is not Runescape specific. It was not designed for that. It is an open-source (for lack of a better term) that we are free to mess with. What we intend to use it for does not reflect on the creators of SCAR.

ORDER. At the end of the recent bench trial, the Court informed the parties that it would try to issue a decision this week. The Court has not completed its decision. The decision likely will be issued next week. Signed by Judge David G Campbell on 1-16-09. This is a TEXT ENTRY ONLY. There is no PDF document associated with this entry. (DGC) (Entered: 01/16/2009)

Btw in same forum they informed its been delayed another week.

scar fails at being only a RS bot;)

sucks for RSBOT lol..

besides, if they sued us.. they would break their cover of them spying on us:) so we need one of the agreement thing they have at mopar:) and maybe we could add like a fine, lets say 1 MILLION DOLLAR USD if a jagex employee looked into this site:)

hmm hope that doesn't happen on rs :X

/

From: Drop Deadv2
hmm hope that doesn't happen on rs :X

you don't have to pay for scar so i think won't happen and jagex is not as big time as blizzard and if anyone is gonna qq me for saying it just accept the fact that there goes way more money into wow then into runescape, has way more users,…

The shit can happen to neXus :p

Btw Narcle, that happened 6 months ago :)

From: n3ss3s
The shit can happen to neXus :p

Btw Narcle, that happened 6 months ago :)

I said that. Also I have insider info since I'm a glider. ;) The last post I made is recent… they are still waiting on a ruling.

Thats so dumb. Blizzard is to out to get money. There making enough already.

Update!

Posted by Mercury January 28th, 2009 on MMOGlider forums.
The judge just ruled and, unfortunately, it did not go much our way. He pretty much awarded everything to Blizzard again.

Here's a link to the order: http://www.mmoglider.com/Legal/trialorder_jan28.pdf

What this means for Glider customers
The judge asked us to file a memo by February 13th on why we should be allowed to continue to sell Glider through the appeal process.

I'm not sure why he asked for that, since I don't think he's going to start listening to us now. So we'll file it and see, but it seems very likely that he will rule against us. Then we'll go up to the 9th circuit and try to get a stay, similar to how the Napster case went.

If all goes badly, Glider could be shut down as early as mid-February. So keep your fingers crossed.

Posted by Mercury January 30th, 2009 on MMOGlider forums.
I just wanted to get a quick reply up on this, since people are telling me that we're shutting down in February, which is not quite true. That may or may not happen and the possibility of that happening is not something we can really measure.

But I can lay it out and you can decide on your own. Here's what's going to happen:

1) February 13th, both parties file regarding injunction and whether/how we can continue to sell during the appeal process. He asked for this in his ruling on Wednesday this week.

2) Sometime after that, maybe a week or two, Judge Campbell rules. If he rules in our favor, nothing else happens - we're good to go through appeal and this process ends. If he rules against us, then we go to step 3.

3) We go to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and ask for a stay through appeal. They gave it to Napster in 2000 and we have some good arguments, but who knows. If they give it to us, we sell through appeal. If not, we don't sell and Glider stops.

So we have two chances here. Different people give us different odds at each step. For example, I am not very hopeful that Judge Campbell will give us a stay, since he has pretty much smoked us at every turn so far and clearly considers me to be a Very Bad Person. So in my opinion, that's maybe a 20% chance. Other people, such as lawyers outside of the team, think it is much more likely that he'll give us a stay - he wouldn't have asked for briefing if he had no intention.

Similarly, there's no way to measure what'll happen at the 9th CCA if we don't get any mercy from Judge Campbell.

Consider it two coin flips and you need to win one. We'll know on the first coin flip in about 3 weeks.