SRL Archive - Senior News and General

To be honest ive been viewing (Trolling) quite a few member applications today. And i am not liking what im seeing. Ill go straight to the point.

The people voting to get these people in, arent even that great scripters themselves.

For example in one thread i had a member saying that when something goes wrong in the script. AS a failsafe use nextplayer(false). Right after i had told the applicant that he should logout. Then at the end of the main loop nextplayer it.

I mean that is complete BS. You do NOT use nextplayer right in the middle of a procedure, that is right in the middle of the main loop. And then this person then voted no :rolleyes: (Lulz if that person is SSRL)

Next everyone seems to be on there high horse about scripting standards. Hell some people vote no in these applications just because of standards. I also have come to the conclusion that this is BS. Some of the scripts i saw use more or less the EXACT same standards as what i use. So i would be rejected from SRL membs.

I dont think standards are important to get into SRL Members. They may be important once you get in there and start getting some recognition. But to just get into that middle group i dont think spacing things correctly is all too important. These guys are still spacing so its easy to read. But maybe they didnt put a ; at the end of a command or some crap like that.

To be perfectly honest i would have said no to some of these people myself. But not because of some of these BS reasons which also include sorry you dont have enough posts. Or sorry longetivity isnt up to my standards.

I nice example in my mind is this :
http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40007

I would have voted yes. He scripts more or less the way i script. It was a
pretty simple script but showed that he had mroe then enough potential. Then people started banging on about the begins and ends for one line. Well ffs i do that aswell because I find it easier to read for MYSELF. If i find it easier to read my own script then i dont give a rats arse if you guys cant be bothered to read "begin" and "end" a few extra times.

If fawki did not come save the day i have absolutely no doubts that this one would have been a no purely based on the fact that his "standards" were "funky"

when i applied for SRL member (back then it wasnt a poll) and even up to around when i became a developer, my standards were absolutly terrible. I simply didnt understand why readability was important.

I think the reason standards appear to be so important to people is because people dont read and understand the whole script, they only skim-read it a little. And while you skim, its much easier to notice bad standards then it is to notice poor logic or anything "real" like that.

its much easier to notice bad standards then it is to notice poor logic or anything "real" like that.

Exactly. Im not saying that all these guys should get in. Some of them arent that good at all. But the reasons that people are turning away them (And even good people) Are just not the right reasons.

This one too: http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40331

Getting flack on his standards. Currently at 6:6.

Like this post:

From: Dr D. Dervish
Yes, I don't like the standards ^^.

Some Begins and Ends missing…

Grade : 60/100, holding my vote, leaning towards yes ^^.

I mostly just browse the Applicants thread, vote once in a while if it's a really groundbreaking vote. (Like that Sandstorm thread a few weeks ago.)

I just dont understand what it is that takes to get into SRL members i guess.

For me its to show an understanding of variables, use them correctly, be able to maybe walk a road or find a rock without just using findcolorspiral. Some knowledge of SRL multiplayer is somewhat big.

And just general logic, as in failsafes and uniqueness in the script. When i look at a script and say ooo nice use of a boolean. Ill vote yes.

I've noticed this "High horse" as well. But I haven't voted nor have I had time to look at much.

I think a new standard should be posted, maybe have more recognized scripters/devs voting and doing a rotation of apps. There is a lot of apps yes, but if enough people rotate then it won't seem like much.

At least a new standard should be posted and everyone must re-read it before voting again. idk how much it'll do, but its better then nothing.

Have a dev or Fawk/Wizzup post the "new rules" or update the current ones. I'm sure wizzup will see this thread soon.

From: Yakman
when i applied for SRL member (back then it wasnt a poll) and even up to around when i became a developer, my standards were absolutly terrible. I simply didnt understand why readability was important.

I think the reason standards appear to be so important to people is because people dont read and understand the whole script, they only skim-read it a little. And while you skim, its much easier to notice bad standards then it is to notice poor logic or anything "real" like that.

From: Narcle
I've noticed this "High horse" as well. But I haven't voted nor have I had time to look at much.

I think a new standard should be posted, maybe have more recognized scripters/devs voting and doing a rotation of apps. There is a lot of apps yes, but if enough people rotate then it won't seem like much.

At least a new standard should be posted and everyone must re-read it before voting again. idk how much it'll do, but its better then nothing.

Have a dev or Fawk/Wizzup post the "new rules" or update the current ones. I'm sure wizzup will see this thread soon.

I really like both of these ideas (or at least Narcle's and what Yakman's implies). People are too hung up on little things like standards and really don't bother to really look at the script for issues. I'm all for establishing a group of people who have the privilege to look at and vote on applications so we can have some decent opinions and replies on applications.

On that note, I really like how boberman makes his posts on applications. They reflect that he puts in the time and effort to make a thoughtful reply that shows he actually read the script. I think more people should make posts like his in that forum.

From: Method
I really like both of these ideas (or at least Narcle's and what Yakman's implies). People are too hung up on little things like standards and really don't bother to really look at the script for issues. I'm all for establishing a group of people who have the privilege to look at and vote on applications so we can have some decent opinions and replies on applications.

On that note, I really like how boberman makes his posts on applications. They reflect that he puts in the time and effort to make a thoughtful reply that shows he actually read the script. I think more people should make posts like his in that forum.

I was actually going to point out boberman. He was the only person actually reading the script and pointing out the real issues with the script.

Another thing I dislike is when people post and say they are going to wait and see what everybody else votes. They are apparently too scared to vote their mind.

Agreed. They are waiting till someone like fawki or wizzup post in the thread that they are in. Then they are like yeah i agree fawki in.

i agree with ssrl+ rotating to make sure we have some decent posts in apps. i also agree with a new topic on the way to judge apps and deleting the old ones, it's getting crowded in the sticky part :p

and with that i also have a new idea. a new "good judgment" cup. we award it to those who take the time to read the script properly, comment on it and make up their mind on their own instead of waiting for dev+ to vote. Here I am thinking of boberman as the latest example. (the picture i posted is meant for the cup)

this would encourage members to take more time into their app posts to get the cup. and even if they still vote like crap they'll at least think about the crap they post.

~RM

I've made propably 10 threads concerning shitting my pants from anger because of "I'm leaning towards yes" on crap apps…

From: n3ss3s
I've made propably 10 threads concerning shitting my pants from anger because of "I'm leaning towards yes" on crap apps…

REVOLUTION!

Almost everyone thinks standards aren't really important when you just begin coding. But after a while you will find out that code written with good standards make life so much easier.. When I read a piece of code that has shit-standards I really give up after a while.

Somehow, I think the SRL Member idea should be changed to "Contributing" member. I really hate to see the fact that some people become SRL Members, while their attitude is horrible. I rather have a person that makes decent posts, or helps people out become SRL-Member than people who make useless posts but can script…

I know there are srl-members around that took like 5 applications before they got in. Mostly those people just keep improving their script until it is good enough for SRL-Members. I really don't see how a person like that can make the forums a better place by becoming SRL Member?

Hey, wait, you're talking about how normal SRL members should get off their "high-horse". Ahaha. Ahahahaha. AHAHAHAHAHA.

You simply tell them, not talk about telling them. Or at least let them join in on the conversation.

I agree Pyro. But, if you think someone is worth it, say so! You are one of the oldest members, I would regard it normal if you where to have a bigger voice in the applications than someone that recently became a member. This has always been one of the mayor flaws in democracy: the voice of the "dumb" is just as much worth as the voice of the "intellectual"…. which I obviously dont agree about.

Is it possible to give higher ranked people the possibility to vote twice or even more?

Also, you could always msg me, and I could take care of things. You know I have a bigger say in things ;)

Like SSRL+ get double voting power? I was wondering about that.

In any case the rules should be change or enforced either way. Obviously there is some people with standards that you just can't read at all. But for those that are almost there… who cares? Use nielsie's formatter on it real quick.

From: WT-Fakawi
I agree Pyro. But, if you think someone is worth it, say so! You are one of the oldest members, I would regard it normal if you where to have a bigger voice in the applications than someone that recently became a member. This has always been one of the mayor flaws in democracy: the voice of the "dumb" is just as much worth as the voice of the "intellectual"…. which I obviously dont agree about.

Is it possible to give higher ranked people the possibility to vote twice or even more?

Also, you could always msg me, and I could take care of things. You know I have a bigger say in things ;)

Yah. I know this first hand. unfortunately New zealand just had its election. Sad sad times ahead.

Unfortunately its not just one singled out case. You take the whole of SRL member apps. And there will be ATLEAST half of those votes on stupid things that really should not matter.

With scripting standards. I think all of them have some sort of indenting etc. And really thats all i need for scripting standards. If you had it all down the margin then yeah ok its a pain in the ass. But if you have indented everything properly so it matches up. Who cares if you used an extra beginning and end on that if statement?

hahaha fawki if you mean my comment a few above about you posting then everyone agreeing. Im sure i always say that :P I remember posting it when the members thing first began.

Robot unfortunately i dont understand what you mean :redface: I have posted in a few apps to stop the BS. Hasnt exactly done much.

Like SSRL+ get double voting power? I was wondering about that.

How about SSRL votes being "2" and member votes being "0.5" (or 4 and 1 of polls can't handle floats), so SSRL members having more clear opinions etc have a bigger effect on it, and it would be a bigger part of a member's duty to tell how could they improve?

http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40470

Tempted to post, but I think I'll pass.

From: Jason2gs
http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40470

Tempted to post, but I think I'll pass.

He says standards make the code more efficient…

Hmm he is quite possibly thinking less beginnings and ends maybe? Save you less then a ms in compiling :P

Im glad someone linked to that fawki post. I hadnt actually seen that before (Maybe i dont look hard enough) What fawki posted is exactly what i vote on.

The standards don't matter to a compiler, it just skips the whitespace.

This is a community, not 1 dude and a compiler.

But we don't all agree.

Nothing irks me more then reading through those applications and seeing someone get turned down because of some arbitrary "You didn't use DDTMS" or the making of a list of "requirements" to get in. Especially a vote against standards bothers me as I've seen some good scripts with not too bad of standards get turned down because of "standards" And other scripts with horrendous standards/coding practices that get a yes.

Part of the problem, I believe, is that people are reading what other have to say BEFORE voting. Sometimes it is valuable, for example, when a script is stolen, however there are times where 3 or so people vote in a retarded fashion that makes no sense.

If I could eliminate anything, the first would be to ban (ok that's a little harsh) people that make arbitrary lists of SRL features and vote based off of it. The next would be to make it so that when viewing an app. You can only see what the applicant wrote, and not what others have said. That way, at least some of the people will actually read the post before voting on it.

It breaks my heart to see some apps that are really quite garbage get in, and others that are great get turned down for arbitrary reasons.

http://www.srl-forums.com/forum/dracody-srl-member-t43809p2.html#26

please. shoot me now.

~ RM

Maybe we should discriminate between who should be allowed to vote or not? Restricting it to only letting people with cups vote would work well I'm guessing, theres still enough people to have a democracy, but we know that those people are more likely to vote properly as they have already demonstrated their skills and responsibility to us. That would (probably) mean we would all have to vote more, to make up for the loss of votes, but it would be worth it.

That, or we could make a post outlining the new voting standards etc and somehow punish the people who don't vote correctly (1 week exile from members after 3 offences?). That might discourage people to vote alltogether, however

From: The Claw
Maybe we should discriminate between who should be allowed to vote or not? Restricting it to only letting people with cups vote would work well I'm guessing, theres still enough people to have a democracy, but we know that those people are more likely to vote properly as they have already demonstrated their skills and responsibility to us. That would (probably) mean we would all have to vote more, to make up for the loss of votes, but it would be worth it.

That, or we could make a post outlining the new voting standards etc and somehow punish the people who don't vote correctly (1 week exile from members after 3 offences?). That might discourage people to vote alltogether, however

i had suggested a cup to reward those who vote properly which would then make people want the cup and vote with some thought.

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
i had suggested a cup to reward those who vote properly which would then make people want the cup and vote with some thought.

~RM

Now here is a good thought. Why didnt I think of that? Lets do that!

That is a brilliant idea.
So like an "Approved Voters" cup?



[offtopic] What ever happened to the old timers rank? :p [/offtopic]

From: Hobbit

[offtopic] What ever happened to the old timers rank? :p [/offtopic]

Still waiting for Wizz to implement. Me not enough time to make it so.



And for the Voters, I'd say something like this maybe?



or this?


or indeed this?

please allow me to quote myself as the first time i posted does not seem to have drawn attention :p

my suggestion is the judge's hammer, and the text is just what i said above.

From: Rasta Magician


i agree with ssrl+ rotating to make sure we have some decent posts in apps. i also agree with a new topic on the way to judge apps and deleting the old ones, it's getting crowded in the sticky part :p

and with that i also have a new idea. a new "good judgment" cup. we award it to those who take the time to read the script properly, comment on it and make up their mind on their own instead of waiting for dev+ to vote. Here I am thinking of boberman as the latest example. (the picture i posted is meant for the cup)

this would encourage members to take more time into their app posts to get the cup. and even if they still vote like crap they'll at least think about the crap they post.

~RM

~RM

Good. A judge hammer it will be. Anyone object to that?

Awww but uncle sam is funny as hell. I like the one with all the people putting in their vote. But i dunno how good that will look when its scaled down.

Judge hammer is fine for me.

FIRST ONE TO BOBERMAN!

EDIT:

From: Rasta Magician
http://www.srl-forums.com/forum/dracody-srl-member-t43809p2.html#26

please. shoot me now.

~ RM

Awww man :( The guy wasnt too bad though. Hahah i guess it only pisses me off when things dont go my way because of idiots. But im all for idiots siding with me :P

Hurrah for democracy

Also add 'bad voting' to warn/infraction list?

Is there a way to make membership polls public to everyone but the person being polled? Or maybe only for SSRL+?

From: Smartzkid
Also add 'bad voting' to warn/infraction list?

Is there a way to make membership polls public to everyone but the person being polled? Or maybe only for SSRL+?

i don't know how extreme adding bad voting infraction would be.

but i don't understand the second part of your post?

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
i don't know how extreme adding bad voting infraction would be.

but i don't understand the second part of your post?

~RM

He says showing the results of the voting, like who voted yes and no to SSRL +

From: Bobarkinator
He says showing the results of the voting, like who voted yes and no to SSRL +

O so people cant just go with the tide?

From: Pyro
O so people cant just go with the tide?

Like, the guy that Rasta said voted because that Wizzy and Fawki did. So he means hiding all votes, so like, once you vote, then no one sees your results and it hides, so people actually have to do some reading at least.

What about an "I" for Irony?! Ok, well, the ironic part has passed, anyway.


Why don't people just vote the way they feel? Saying prejudice isn't a part of voting would be lying, as we all know.

From: R0b0t1
What about an "I" for Irony?! Ok, well, the ironic part has passed, anyway.


Why don't people just vote the way they feel? Saying prejudice isn't a part of voting would be lying, as we all know.

Prejudice is always part of the way we vote.

but would you want all your friends to be SRL Members just because they're your friends? or because they're up to the standart that we want in that group?

would you poll all your friends for ssrl even though you don't think they deserve it?

Prejudice is of course a part of the way you vote. If i guy i don't like applied to members i'd say no and blame it on his attitude, fair enough.

but i think there needs to be a certain "requirement" for people to bemoce SRL Members;

for me it's some knowledge of scripting, a good attitude, and mostly a want and willingness to script. Because to me that's what M«SRL Members is. a group of people who know how to script, who enjoy scripting and who do script. Although i am more than happy to see for example people who don't script but help others script. Anyone who is adding (enough) to the communitty in my oppinion should be allowed into SRL Members.

e.g. a guy who scripts ok, but is known for testing a lot of scripts and giving good feedback and helps pointing out errors. I think he definetely deserves SRL Members because he's helping other scripters making their script better.

~RM

Exactly! We're getting somewhere.


Somewhat like how you could be a terrible $occupational-adjective but still be useful to $employer.