SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

This is something that has really always bothered me (well, since I was old enough to notice). In Canada & the US (don't know about Europe), there is this whole system of "political correctness".

It's just that, Christmas can never be called Christmas. It is somehow a "holiday season" that just happens to fall on the same day that the Christian world celebrates Christmas. It just seems ridiculous to me. If stores and organizations are so afraid of offending people by openly 'celebrating' Christmas, then they can just let the holiday pass quietly. But no, they have to capitalize on sales, so they have this strange duplicity where they acknowledge the cultural pervasiveness of Christmas by assuming that everyone will buy things, while at the same time denying it by insisting that it is just the "holiday season".


It's not just Christmas though. Similarily, AD (anno domini) is called CE (common era), even though:
a) It's based on the exact same year
b) There is no alternate justification for picking that year
c) It's not even a "common" era - most Muslim countries use AH (`Âm al-Fîl, the Year of the Elephant / the year Muhammad was born).

And a plethora of other things fall victim to being "correct".

Now I'm not saying that "Jesusjesusjesuschristmaschristmas" should be shoved down everyone's throat, but if people are going to celebrate Christmas, why can't they just call it Christmas?

EDIT:
P.S. This post is probably really poorly written, I will revise it later when my dog is not bothering me :o
P.P.S. Discuss.

From: A G E N T


It's just that, Christmas can never be called Christmas.

They can call it Christmas if they want to it just doesn't appeal to some people that are against every single little thing in our lives being based on religion. Also maybe they don't celebrate Christmas. Just because it falls at the end of the year doesn't mean that it is Christmas. If i was running a store and I had a sale I wouldn't call it a Christmas sale I would call it a Winter Solstice Sale because that is what I celebrate. Then people would be like OMG he is anti Christian let's not support him because he worships all the evil in the world. I'm not saying that is you…just that there are many people like that. And if they call it a Christmas sale then the other people would think the same thing. Holiday season is just an easy way to combine the holidays and not leave anybody alienated.

Nobody actually says that you can't call it Christmas; it is a choice. Call it Christmas if you want to.

It's pretty openly called christmas in Finland, but now they're planning on removing all christmas celebrations from schools because of the huge 0.*something* percentage of students that happen to be muslims which is pretty retarded IMHO.

If wal-mart started saying, look at all our christmas specials, omg! They might discourage the jews (or something who does not celebrate christmas, I don't know) from going there. Why do you think that everyone celebrates christmas and wants to be a part of it? Also, you disliking the term "Holiday Season", are you trying to deny that Christmas is a Holiday?

i personally am not going to refuse to buy something at a store if it has the right price, just because they call it a Quanza sale! I think the advertisers are over analyzing how people will react to how they phrase things.

From: Brain
If wal-mart started saying, look at all our christmas specials, omg! They might discourage the jews (or something who does not celebrate christmas, I don't know) from going there.

This was basically the point of my post. They have their store all done up in Christmas trees, have Santa Claus everywhere, it's clearly a "Christmas-y" theme, yet they don't call it that. If it was some sort of civic holiday and they said "Yay holiday time, come in for a sale", that would be different. It's just that everyone wants to eat their cake (make profit from Christmas) and have it too (not calling it Christmas)

From: Brain
Also, you disliking the term "Holiday Season", are you trying to deny that Christmas is a Holiday?

Not at all. Personally, I celebrate Christmas and live in a country (Canada) where the majority are Christian/Catholic. My point was, why do people insist on the ambiguity of a "holiday season" when it is clearly Christmas?

what about Hanukkah? And Thanksgiving is so close many people consider it to be in "The Season". Also, New Years Day is during "The Season" as well.

From: Brain
what about Hanukkah? And Thanksgiving is so close many people consider it to be in "The Season". Also, New Years Day is during "The Season" as well.

As I said before. They always say "holiday season" and right next to it, they have a picture of a snowman or Santa Claus, or some secular symbol of Christmas, not a menorah, Star of David, or some other Hanukkah symbol. Also, Thanksgiving is the second week of October, so I wouldn't say that that really counts.

Ah, well I consider Thanksgiving in the holiday season, that sir, is opinion, along with all of this, you can have yours, I can have mine, and corporations can have theirs. They are just trying to stay on neutral ground because some people do get VERY offended by stupid stuff like this. So why NOT play on the safe side? Sure they, won't lose a lot of sales, but why lose any? Are you going to NOT shop there because they don't say Christmas?

EDIT: Just so you don't think I am the only one that thinks Thanksgiving is in the holiday season. Wiki

This kind of crap has been going on for too long. Christmas was originally named Christmas to celebrate the birth of Jesus, NOT to see what Santa Clause brought you. People really don't care what the hell you call it, many of my friends don't celebrate Christmas but they still call it that. The stupid "Happy holidays" shit is getting old. The only reason why they changed it in the first place is because of all the ignorant fools that think the world revolves around them. Here's an example: About two years ago I worked for a company called Publix. Every year for Christmas we would decorate it in a nice theme, to show our spirit. One night I was working and this guy comes in and walks around for a bit, and then asks me to get my manager. So I go and get her and he complains that there isn't enough "Jewish" holiday theme in the store and refused to shop here. So the manager, who wanted that ONE sale, took down some Christmas decorations and put up some Jewish theme articles. Even tho I have long quit that job, when I go in to get something during the Christmas time they still have Hanukkahs, Star of David's and countless other themes up and over the place. Seriously, if you don't like a store for their decorations or what they are calling their sale, then DON'T FREAKING SHOP THERE! Is it really that hard to comprehend? Me, I could care less if they store was worshiping Satan or were raging hormone gays, if they had a good price I would shop there. People are not offended if we call it Christmas either, it's the idiots that are higher up that *THINK* people get offended. Do you get offended when you walk into a Chinese restaurant and they have painting, sculptures, language, etc that represent them? No, of course you don't, why? Because that's THEIR culture and that is what makes them happy. People need to stop trying not to step on eggshells around OTHER peoples religion/culture and try to make everybody happy. If people would only worry about THEIR OWN religion then none of this would happen. So with that.

MERRY FLIPPIN CHRISTMAS!!!!

~Camo

Oh, and what about the people that think santa saying "Ho ho ho" is offensive and want to ban the phrase? I think that's one of the most ridiculous things ever.

From: GoF
Oh, and what about the people that think Santa saying "Ho ho ho" is offensive and want to ban the phrase? I think that's one of the most ridiculous things ever.

Are you kidding me?! People want to ban Santa's famous line, "Ho ho ho?!" Now the world is going insane…It's all about political correctness and wanting us to live in a perfect world, where no one will be offended by seeing the word "Christmas", which no one is.

This reminds me…I live in England, and a couple of years back when the Football World Cup was on TV (can't remember what year) the Government said something like

Try not to put England flags up, as this offends people from other countries

Then the people from other countries came along and said

It doesn't offend us!

The idiots leading our countries just assume that people will get offended by things. Why can't they go to do their research before giving out stupid messages to us?

Hehe, that's my rant over :p

From: Camo Kyle
This kind of crap has been going on for too long. Christmas was originally named Christmas to celebrate the birth of Jesus, NOT to see what Santa Clause brought you. People really don't care what the hell you call it, many of my friends don't celebrate Christmas but they still call it that. The stupid "Happy holidays" shit is getting old. The only reason why they changed it in the first place is because of all the ignorant fools that think the world revolves around them. Here's an example: About two years ago I worked for a company called Publix. Every year for Christmas we would decorate it in a nice theme, to show our spirit. One night I was working and this guy comes in and walks around for a bit, and then asks me to get my manager. So I go and get her and he complains that there isn't enough "Jewish" holiday theme in the store and refused to shop here. So the manager, who wanted that ONE sale, took down some Christmas decorations and put up some Jewish theme articles. Even tho I have long quit that job, when I go in to get something during the Christmas time they still have Hanukkahs, Star of David's and countless other themes up and over the place. Seriously, if you don't like a store for their decorations or what they are calling their sale, then DON'T FREAKING SHOP THERE! Is it really that hard to comprehend? Me, I could care less if they store was worshiping Satan or were raging hormone gays, if they had a good price I would shop there. People are not offended if we call it Christmas either, it's the idiots that are higher up that *THINK* people get offended. Do you get offended when you walk into a Chinese restaurant and they have painting, sculptures, language, etc that represent them? No, of course you don't, why? Because that's THEIR culture and that is what makes them happy. People need to stop trying not to step on eggshells around OTHER peoples religion/culture and try to make everybody happy. If people would only worry about THEIR OWN religion then none of this would happen. So with that.

MERRY FLIPPIN CHRISTMAS!!!!

~Camo

Usually I agree with you on your posts but… not this time. What if they don't celebrate Christmas. What if they don't want to call it Christmas…What if… Christmas is a cheep rip off… of Winter Solstice and Yule…?!? Think about it for a while. Christians actually have a fairly new religion compared to some. It would be nice if people would recognize that in todays world you need to sell not only to one group of people but to the population. In America we are supposed to support diversity. How hard is it for somebody to call it Holiday season (when it actually is). It isn't just Christmas. I agree that it was stupid of the person to complain about the decorations, but what if you were just smart enough to decorate multi-culturally in the first place?

Also snowmen are not symbols of Christmas. They are symbols of winter. Many Non-Christian religions have a Santa. The only real symbol of Christmas is Jesus.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=christmas&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2
Google doesn't think Christmas is only about Jesus (symbol-wise) ;)

And what about christmas trees? I don't see any Hanukkah trees being sold, nor anything like "holiday trees". I'm atheist, I couldn't care less about the actual religious aspects of Christmas, but who honestly does Jesus-related things during it aside from maybe a prayer for a Christmas dinner? Plenty of people from other religions/no religion give presents anyway, even if it's just so their kids don't feel left out. I honestly doubt they care enough. This is almost as pointless as Christians being offended that gay people be allowed to marry, though they don't mind them having everything but the title (marrige).

From: Brain

EDIT: Just so you don't think I am the only one that thinks Thanksgiving is in the holiday season. Wiki

From: Wiki
in the United States

I am looking at this from a Canadian view. Thanksgiving comes before Hallowe'en, and nobody thinks that that is the sort of winter/Christmas holiday season.

From: R1ch
The idiots leading our countries just assume that people will get offended by things. Why can't they go to do their research before giving out stupid messages to us?

Hehe, that's my rant over :p

Yeah, I know what you mean. People assume that everything is offensive until proven otherwise. A university in Montreal cancelled an MS (I think) fundraiser because it affects mostly white men. :s

From: Aser
Usually I agree with you on your posts but… not this time. What if they don't celebrate Christmas. What if they don't want to call it Christmas…What if… Christmas is a cheep rip off… of Winter Solstice and Yule…?!? Think about it for a while. Christians actually have a fairly new religion compared to some. It would be nice if people would recognize that in todays world you need to sell not only to one group of people but to the population. In America we are supposed to support diversity. How hard is it for somebody to call it Holiday season (when it actually is). It isn't just Christmas. I agree that it was stupid of the person to complain about the decorations, but what if you were just smart enough to decorate multi-culturally in the first place?

Also snowmen are not symbols of Christmas. They are symbols of winter. Many Non-Christian religions have a Santa. The only real symbol of Christmas is Jesus.

I'm not saying that they HAVE to call it Christmas. I was trying to point out that people should call it whatever they want without other people screaming down their throats saying "It's Happy Holidays!" I re-read what I posted and I notice that I didn't explain myself thoroughly, sorry.

I agree that it was stupid of the person to complain about the decorations, but what if you were just smart enough to decorate multi-culturally in the first place?

I didn't explain that well enough. We did have multi-cultural items throughout the store. We had Star of Davids on cupcakes, and Manora's on the front door as you came in, and whatnot. It's not that we only decorated in a Christmas theme, it was more of a Winter theme. We had snowmen and snow flakes all over the place. There were only two Santa's posted up but they were in the back where the stockers went in and out of the storage. There was greenery lining the cash registers, green and red colors were used pretty often. The only actual Christmas decoration we had was a small baby Jesus set near the cash registers. But honestly, if he didn't like the decorations, he didn't HAVE to shop there. There are many other stores around us that he could have chosen. I was using that to prove my point of

The only reason why they changed it in the first place is because of all the ignorant fools that think the world revolves around them.

This bugs me tho

Christians actually have a fairly new religion compared to some. It would be nice if people would recognize that in todays world you need to sell not only to one group of people but to the population.

I'm pretty sure that none of us has said anything to do with it being because of the Christians. I think that you're assuming a little too much. So basically what you're saying is that stores need to stop selling to one group in particular and sell to all. So why don't the Kosher stores stop selling just Kosher products and sell EVERYTHING to make everybody happy? What about brands in the stores that tend to sell only to the group that actually buys it? Should Hummis be changed so that way it is more likely to sell to other groups? This is based on what I quoted you on. (There are many other stores that sell to one group, but that is the most known.) Also on this

Oh, and what about the people that think santa saying "Ho ho ho" is offensive and want to ban the phrase? I think that's one of the most ridiculous things ever.

Want to know the reason why? It promotes prostitution. Seriously, come on now! That is the lamest thing that I have ever heard! This is all I have for now. Have a great day ;)

~Camo

Ah in my opinion its the holiday season because alot of holidays are around that time.

But I also think theres to much holidays. The stores need these holidays to make money. "give the perfect gift right now!" They want you to buy and give gifts. More gifts bought more money made.

Who really cear's what our end of year hoildays are called, its christmas and its holidays, but who really cear's?

Breaking news to help you not fail at life!

Santa Claus doesn't live at North Pole! He lives in Finland! Christmas has got nothing to do with Jesus doing shit… It's a…. Paganic (Sp?) celebration…

I've seen ONE christmas related movie where they don't say that he lives at North Pole…

cear

Care.

From: n3ss3s
Breaking news to help you not fail at life!

Santa Claus doesn't live at North Pole! He lives in Finland! Christmas has got nothing to do with Jesus doing shit… It's a…. Paganic (Sp?) celebration…

I've seen ONE christmas related movie where they don't say that he lives at North Pole…



Care.

I'm sorry, but what? Christmas may have stemmed from a Pagan celebration, but it hasn't been one for a really long time.

From: Camo Kyle

This bugs me tho I'm pretty sure that none of us has said anything to do with it being because of the Christians.

[H]Chrit[/H]mas…[H]Christ[/H]ian I think they might be a little realted even if nobody directly pointed that out. I agree that the person that wanted re-decoration is being unreasonable.

Holidays is just an easy way to apeal to everybody. Christmas singles people out.

Was your store an only Christian store? If not it should have been open to all. A Kosher shop has to have only Kosher food so that the non-Kosher doesn't contaminate it. That is simply out of nessecity. A food does not single people out.

The way I see it is that saying "Merry Christmas" is totally fine, but it could be seen as an assumption of beliefs. That is one of the most annoying things possible. You should never assume you know anything about a person. Try to actually find it out. Saying "Happy Holidays" is like saying have fun with what ever you feel like doing.



Also the Christmas tree didn't start out as a Chritmas tree. It started out with pagan origins.

From: n3ss3s
Breaking news to help you not fail at life!

Santa Claus doesn't live at North Pole! He lives in Finland! Christmas has got nothing to do with Jesus doing shit… It's a…. Paganic (Sp?) celebration…

I've seen ONE christmas related movie where they don't say that he lives at North Pole…



Care.

Thank you.

Senrath, afaik pagan means before gods were worshipped, (well, gods have always been worshipped in different cultures with different times, so we can say pagan gods, so we exclude "God", and other… gods of today?), and by that I mean Christmas was invented before Jesus was put in Christmas songs.

Also the Christmas tree didn't start out as a Chritmas tree. It started out with pagan origins.

Ditto.


However, Christian Christmas is different from the "pagan" one…

Christmas is about getting and giving stuff. Nobody cares about jesus tbh.

From: n3ss3s
Senrath, afaik pagan means before gods were worshipped, (well, gods have always been worshipped in different cultures with different times, so we can say pagan gods, so we exclude "God", and other… gods of today?), and by that I mean Christmas was invented before Jesus was put in Christmas songs.



Ditto.


However, Christian Christmas is different from the "pagan" one…

As far as I know, Christmas, although originally deemed a pagan holiday by the church, was always about, well, Christ. The pagan holiday at its roots was called Sol Invictus.

From: GoF
Christmas is about getting and giving stuff. Nobody cares about jesus tbh.

Yeah. Except for, you know, the billion-odd Christians in the world :P
No, but I know what you mean. Christmas has become a consumerist event, like Hallowe'en.

Well as I said there obviously are two christmases,

Joulu
Wikipedia
Loikkaa: valikkoon, hakuun

Joulu on vuosittainen 25. joulukuuta vietettävä juhla, jota on länsimaissa vietetty perinteisesti kristinuskoon liittyvänä juhlana Jeesuksen syntymän kunniaksi. Ennen kristinuskoa on talvipäivänseisauksen aikoihin vietetty sydäntalven juhlaa. Suomen kielen sana joulu on skandinaavinen lainasana ja tulee alun perin talvipäivänseisaus-juhlan nimestä.

Christmas is a yearly celebrations that in western… "unions?", has been traditionally celebrated as the birthday of jesus. Before <the word for jesus religion>, there has been celebration of "heartwinter", and the Finnish word Joulu(=Christmas) comes from the name of that celebration…

So apparently there is a both religional and a language difference, so it's kind of inarguable then :/

From: GoF
Christmas is about getting and giving stuff. Nobody cares about jesus tbh.

im with GoF.

DRINKING PARTY ON CHRISTMAS NIGHT AND SECRET SANTA A GIRL! :p

Tell ya what, I'll ask 30 or so people at my school over the week if their families actually say prayers and such for Christmas if they're Christian, and if they still do Christmas stuff if they aren't, what they call it, and if they're offended by the various names, then post back the results :)

Happy Newton Day!

1) Kill the people that make people unhappy.
2) Kill the unhappy people that are left.