SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

Before I start, I don't want anybody feeling offended because of someone's thoughts. Take it as a grain of salt, and nothing more.

And NO BASHING canidates using false statements, like "Obama is a Terrorist" or "Palin is a complete moron".

And no, Ralph Nader doesn't count. He's a 1%. Out of the picture.

=====================================================

Don't tl;dr this:

I like Obama simply because they have no affiliation with Bush. After Government and Politics classes and research, many of the corrupted companies (oil companies, etc) have had relations with Bush, whether a friend or a businessman partner. Now his whole "CHANGE" stuff is questioning me: Other candidates that have ran before for president have also said a lot of that stuff, but only did a handful of them were actually solved and done. I wish he could carry out those things, but I just don't think many of them will be done.

I also like McCain for his experience with lots of things: War, Government, and carrying out laws and rules. I've been seeing lots of Anti-McCain and Obama ads mainly saying the other promoted raising taxes. But what for? Sometimes, raising taxes is needed. Yes, we all hate the fact of paying taxes, but they pay off a lot of stuff. I researched some of the reasons why both have raised taxes in the past. Most of McCain's were for good reasons, Obama's was slightly sketchy.

Now McCain's pick for Vice-Prez. HORRIBLE. I don't think he could have picked worse. Yes, Palin is young, spunky, and has the attitude of fixing up some stuff, but with her poor amount of experience and foreign policy makes me lean to Obama. I completely understand why McCain picked her, and it is also very obvious: What happens when a opposite party's candidate was a female and lost? Where do her supporters go? To McCain. Some people aren't that bright enough to elect people for what they plan on doing. I know some people who want to vote for Obama simply because he's Black, and McCain because Palin is a Woman. It's tough to try to explain to people they are voting for the wrong reason, but hey, who am I to stop them?

Now let's talk about people's reactions and after-effects of the presidency. Now let's all think realisticly: What happens when a bunch of "Southern Texas KKK" members see a black person run their country? Let's not further on that subject, as you can let your mind wander. And with McCain: He's up in age, WAY up in there. With his medical history of heart attacks and strokes, do you think he will live 4 years, or even 8? What if he dies, who will be running our country? That's right, Mrs. No-Foreign-Policy-Experience Palin.
(I would never hope for ANY of this to happen, but you have to take chances with this kind of stuff)


So after all of that, it looks like I have my Pro's and Con's of both canidates. Now who would I vote for? It's a tough decision. I have another 3 weeks to decide, and only time will tell which candidate slips up first.



So I ask you SRL, Who will YOU vote for?

I don't like McCain as a person, but I like his ideas more than Obama's. Obama bashes McCain for 'Giving to the rich but taking from the middle class', but that's BS. For instance, most pro athletes lose over 40% of their salary to taxes (right? That's what I hear anyway). Another example - Doctors (My parents are both doctors :p). They went through an extra couple years of school, then went through residency (earning less than someone who did poorly in college), and only at about the age of 30 (at the absolute minimum), began making good money. Now, Obama wants to take all of the money from these hard working people (I'll admit, some people just get lucky, like popular website owners and such, but there's more hardworking people earning over 250,000 than there are lucky ones). Obama wants the government to take control over many things and have them be ruled by the government. One place where this is leading - Communism. The US has thrived with capitalism, why stop now? Sure, the market is taking a plunge (pretty big plunge actually), but it will recover. That's how capitalism works.

Another big issue is the war. Bush hasn't made all the right decisions considering it, but is he the only one at fault? No. Congress (Democratic majority) is also to blame. As for pulling out now or setting a time frame from pulling out - very bad idea. What if order isn't restored by the time the time frame says to pull out? Very bad for the US.

If I could vote, I'd vote for McCain.

McCain is the better candidate, but Obama will win.

Obama will win.

From: Runescapian
I don't like McCain as a person

Just wondering, why? Because I have never seen someone say that. Normally people are saying how good of a person he is.

Is Ron Paul as a write-in an available option?

Frankly I think both candidates are idiots.

From: bullzeye95
Just wondering, why? Because I have never seen someone say that. Normally people are saying how good of a person he is.

I mean like, I don't like his public speech ability, his way of expressing himself, etc. Obama wins in those categories, but it's their actions, not their words, that matter :)

Obama will absolutely send our country to hell. He is an empty suit with an absurd background and absurd policies.

First, taxes.
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Obama wants to tax the hell out of business. Primarily because in his shallow opinion, they "don't deserve it". These tax increases for business are supposed to help the economy. This just in The American economy is centralized by business! Taxing business will not save the average American any money, no matter how many tax cuts you make for them. Increased taxes for business = less jobs and higher prices. Unless you never buy anything from any store or business, this plan will screw you over. 1% of Americans pay for 40% of taxes. 30% pay 70% of all taxes. The lower 30th percentile pay for 0% of all taxes, and subsequently reap the benefits of them.

I'm all for helping those who are in a tough financial situation. They need enough to get them going again, not life long welfare were there is no need or reward for work. If you punish profit and reward laziness we would end up like Cuba and our country will go to a communistic hell. There will be no innovation or desire to better any business in seek of profit if it will be taxed away for the unemployed. The economy will come to a stand still. Jobs will be cut, and more and more will rely on welfare and govt services which will be funded by an increasingly shrinking economy.

Obamas plan will not just be tax cuts, but a redistribution of wealth. When everyone is pushed to be equal in profit there is no incentive for work. Hard work, risk, and business smarts should be rewarded with THEIR profits, not taxes which will send THEIR profits to others.

The USA was founded liberty and a free market, not socialistic government restriction. People left Europe because too much government had a stranglehold on the people. Increased govt is a bad thing.

Obamas spending with our money will be through the roof on useless programs designed to redistribute wealth. Those who do not know his record will say he is for low taxes and low spending, while saying Palin wants to increase spending. Obamas record shows that 18% of the time he voted for lower spending vs higher spending, as opposed to Palin who record shows 88% of the time for lower spending.

Vote for Obama if you would like less jobs and higher prices, in the name of taking money from those who run the economy.

Energy.
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This issue makes me wonder how anyone can vote for him. We cannot fix the energy false energy crisis by filling our damn tires and spending billions of OUR dollars on inefficient windmills. This energy in the name of going green is absolutely pointless because gorebal warming showed itself to be a ruse, where the earth is cooling the ice age warming ice age crew is pushing its next false cause.

The united states has MORE un-drilled oil than the middle east! We have enough to pay of our debts and maintain a steady price for an estimated 75 years. 75 years is plenty of time for new innovations for energy productions to become more affordable, practical, and cheap. We need to let the market and private investors decide when to switch to alternative energies, not the government. The switch to alternative energy sources should switch when it becomes more profitable and affordable to use through innovation and necessity; not imposed necessity at a time when they are costly and inefficient; not when our current energy possibilities are being blocked by greenists who think that driller will somehow kill the spotted owl.

Drilling our own oil will not only help the people and the economy, it will help national security. Why give billions to nations that want nothing more than for us to end our way of life? Middle eastern nations who we are paying for oil use that money to fund anti-american organizations and many of which are terrorist organizations.

Nuclear energy is also highly important in the process of gaining energy independence. Its extremely efficient, clean, safe, and is even renewable. Nuclear waste can be reused as fuel. I fail to see why so many liberals in America are so opposed to it. The most liberal nations like France and Sweden have no oil, but are exporters of energy. Why? They are 75% nuclear.

Experience/Background/Morality
———————

Where can I even start on this one? Ayers? Wright? Drugs? Experience? Slum lords? Speaking/Decision making?

Obama in his early years was a practicing muslim and was raised in a muslim family. He later moved towards christianity. For 20 years he avidly attended a church lead by anti american preachers. People like rev Warren Wright would preach america as being comparable to the devil. He would say "Not God bless America, God damn America". For 20 years Wright was Baracks mentor, preacher and friend. Only until he realized that Wright was a potential political liability he made the sudden switch from supporting him to opposing him, fulfilling his job as nothing but a crowd pleaser. We've got a true patriot on our hands…

Obama also served on Woods Fund board befriending the communistic terrorist Bill Ayers. Bill Ayers is responsible for bombings on the Capitol, The Pentagon, and NYC Police headquarters in the early 70s. Ayers did fund raising for Obamas state senate campaign, and appeared on many education panels with him. I fail to see how Obama has been able to avoid questions with his connection with the terrorist throughout his campaign. Possibly because any question is never aired by liberal bias media?

"The Anointed One" also has a shabby history with slum lords. Tony Rezko has had a long relationship with Obama. Rezko provided Obama with donations at important points in all of his elections from community activist to presidential candidate. He has received over $200,000 in donations from Rezko. Barack used his connection with Rezko to get a 1.6 million dollar mansion far below the price of what anyone else could get it for.

Obamas lack of experience always seemed to be underplayed or ignored. He has never pushed one piece of major legislature in his years (2) in the US Senate. Over 100 times he has voted "Present" as a state and US. Certainly pushing for change as a senator… Obama has be able to write 2 memoirs and no pieces of legislature. Its hard to post much more for this part, seeing as there isn't much more. His self proclaimed executive experience he says comes from running a campaign. Executive experience doesn't come from running a campaign with people who would like nothing more than to kiss your ass.

Obama also fails to speak when put on the spot about any complicated issue. Watch the warren forum where he is asked the simple question of when is a human considered alive enough to get human rights. He stalled, threw in filler words and then proceeded to say an answer "was above his paygrade". It however was not above his paygrade when he voted against the born alive protection act 6 times, which would require medical attention to be given to babies who survived failed abortions (The act does not impede on Rowe vs Wade as Obama claimed it did as an excuse, which changed from "accidental voting the wrong way"). The born alive act does not impede on abortion, and cannot be compared to it. If the child is born and surviving on its own, it should no longer be an issue of abortion and inconvenience. Denying the infant medical attention is cruel on every level of morality.

When talking at a hometown convention, his teleprompter went out and he choked. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omHUsRTYFAU)
Being able to speak with power and confidence is nothing special if you cannot speak at all when you have to think for yourself or answer a tough question. Image if he were president and had to make a decision which would affect the lives of millions. A president doesn't get a teleprompter to follow him around all day. He is an empty suit. We have already seen how bad things could be if he had to make a hard decision. It took him 3 tries to get things right with the Georgia issue, while McCain was spot on the first time. He has nothing up top in his head except the ability to spew the words hope and change.

He has also shown himself to be a hypocritical crowd pleaser, along with Biden. Obama has always had a history of being for gay marriage, yet when faced with an anti-gay-marriage crowd he claims he believes that it is a sacred thing between a man and a woman. He says hes the "keeper of his brother", yet his brother lives in Nairobi on $12 a year, with no help from Obama. Before the vp pick, Biden would continually denounce Obama and say that he would never accept a VP pick by Obama. Biden, I ask you, what ever happened to the denouncements and denial of the VP pick? Biden continually bashes Bush for our oil dependence on other nations, even though Bush pushes to drill our own oil. Meanwhile Biden votes against all drilling, voting against drilling in ANWR in 98, saying it was because we wouldn't get the oil for 10 years. Hey Biden, Its 10 years later… we could sure be using that oil. How can one blame someone for oil dependence when they themselves vote against drilling.

I'm getting sick and tired of biased liberal crap. They don't look at policy, they don't look at record, they don't use common sense. They spew "fox news" drone at anyone who points out a fact that wasn't shown on their precious NBC or CNN because it could hurt the possibility of the "Anointed One's" changes of winning.

And how the hell can you say Palin was a terrible choice? Palin is the only one out of the 4 who has ANY executive experience. How is it that libs keep saying she is inexperienced when she has 3 times as much experience as their presidential candidate as a vp pick.

I will make another 10 paragraph add-on to this post soon expanding on Obama's direct relation to ACORN, and the current economic state. (He was the lead lawyer in suing banks for not giving enough sub prime loans, loans which absolutely killed wallstreet thanks to freddy and fanny buying all them, because democrats voted not reform them.

EDIT: I agree with you black, Ron Paul ftw…

How many times will I hafta repost this thing?

Love the siggy, Brown :p

Oh, and one thing - In my opinion, the middle class doesn't need tax breaks. Those who want to live the 'American Dream' have to work for it, it won't be handed to you on a silver platter. I know a family of three - One's a nurse, the other is a part time janitor part time handyman (Don't know how else to describe it :p), and the other is their son. They live in a beautiful 250-300k house, adding stuff every year to make it better. They have enough money to send their kid to a decent school (non-public) and enough to send him off on all kinds of summercamps which definitely don't come too cheap. Along with that, their house is loaded with all kinds of stuff - 3 HDTVs (2 small, 1 big), Cable (full package), fully equipped bar, PS2, and the kid (just like 5-6 years old) has tons of toys (way more than my little sister). Yet they never hesitate to take some kids out for ice cream, order pizza for themselves and neighbors, etc. Along with that, they take loads of vacations, most recently to Disney World. And no, it's not like they received an inheritance and are just blowing it all off or something).

The middle class Obama wants to help are all those who work the bare minimum, make no effort, don't attempt to save money, etc. They don't deserve lower taxes.

No offence, but i HATE politics… Although i do want Obama to win because he is black… I'm not racist, i just want a black president for once.

I vote McCain. Obama is going to raise taxes. Obama continuously avoids questions on the debates. Obama is only where he is because of organizations like ACORN. Obama went to an extremely racist church, giving millions, and somehow claims that he wasn't closely affiliated with them. Obama has never held a real job, yet he made over 4 million last year. Biden is just a failure. Tell me one thing he's done right, and I might be convinced to write about some of the many things she's done wrong.

Palin has done amazing things in alaska. Yeah, she has almost no experience in foreign policy, but she has amazing plans, and I agree with many of her ideals. Also, I very strongly agree with her energy plans.


Overall, it's a lose - lose for the American people this election, but I have absolutely no trust in Obama. Also, remember our last democratic president? Clinton. Lets see…what did he do for us? Just something on the top of my mind.. he 'negotiated' a number of trade agreements that, without, we probably wouldn't be in the oil crisis we are now.

Palin's a whore, Bidens a racist, Obama doesn't know what he's talking about, McCain… Well, he's a war monger.

The country is Fucked, no matter how you look at it.

From: noidea
Palin's a whore, Bidens a racist, Obama doesn't know what he's talking about, McCain… Well, he's a war monger.

The country is Fucked, no matter how you look at it.

I couldn't agree more with you. Maybe not on all of your categorizations of the candidates, but the system is failing.

The government shouldn't be interfering in the private sector. This bailout was stupid and pointless and is only going to prolong the impending deep cycle recession. The government has gotten way to big and its time to trim the fat. At the same time, our personal liberties have been slowly eroded.

Unwarranted wire tapping? Invasion of privacy? The proposal of national ID cards? Open borders? Worthless currency? Its pathetic. This isn't the America I know and love. It's time for a change folks. It's time to start listening to Ron Paul.

Go check him out, make your own decisions. These are your freedoms, it's time to take them back.

From: BlackThursday
I couldn't agree more with you.

That makes me happy.

From: BlackThursday
Maybe not on all of your categorizations of the candidates,

lol is all I can say.

If I lived in America, I'd go for Obama, he can't be worse than Bush and his party, to be honest. Although I fear that Obama will be shot if he wins, I still hope that he will win. Why? Like I mentioned, new idea's, fresh idea's, not the same over and over again. I have seen people saying 'I vote for McCain because he will put alot of money in the Army', and mainly follow Bush's route. Bush is the worst American president, EVER.
He is black? So what? Let America's ground shake under the first Black-Coloured president, hooray!

(If my statements were false, then tell me)

From: Wizzup?
If I lived in America, I'd go for Obama, he can't be worse than Bush and his party, to be honest. Although I fear that Obama will be shot if he wins, I still hope that he will win. Why? Like I mentioned, new idea's, fresh idea's, not the same over and over again. I have seen people saying 'I vote for McCain because he will put alot of money in the Army', and mainly follow Bush's route. Bush is the worst American president, EVER.
He is black? So what? Let America's ground shake under the first Black-Coloured president, hooray!

(If my statements were false, then tell me)

I completely agree. Bush is pathetic. I just like Obama for some odd reason.

From: Wizzup?
If I lived in America, I'd go for Obama, he can't be worse than Bush and his party, to be honest. Although I fear that Obama will be shot if he wins, I still hope that he will win. Why? Like I mentioned, new idea's, fresh idea's, not the same over and over again. I have seen people saying 'I vote for McCain because he will put alot of money in the Army', and mainly follow Bush's route. Bush is the worst American president, EVER.
He is black? So what? Let America's ground shake under the first Black-Coloured president, hooray!

(If my statements were false, then tell me)

Bush isn't the only one at fault. The Democratic-ruled Congress had to pass things too, and they did. What was so bad about Bush? I can only think of a few things - the war and spending too much. The main reason he ended up spending too much was because of the war, so the only real thing he messed up was the war. However, Congress agreed that we should go to war with Iraq. After we attacked Iraq, there was no turning back. How could you invade a country and then leave it in ruins and retreat? It would only make matters worse. So, I believe Bush wasn't a bad president, but he wasn't great either.

If idea's are new, that doesn't mean they're good ;) I believe Brown explained all that.

From: Santa_Clause
I completely agree. Bush is pathetic. I just like Obama for some odd reason.

I don't know if I'm missing something big, but why does everyone hate Bush so much :confused:. It's Congress' fault just as much as Bush's that the US is in this mess. And I don't think a turn toward Communism would be good for the US (Not saying that Communism is bad everywhere, just for the US).

From: Wizzup?
If I lived in America, I'd go for Obama, he can't be worse than Bush and his party, to be honest. Although I fear that Obama will be shot if he wins, I still hope that he will win. Why? Like I mentioned, new idea's, fresh idea's, not the same over and over again. I have seen people saying 'I vote for McCain because he will put alot of money in the Army', and mainly follow Bush's route. Bush is the worst American president, EVER.
He is black? So what? Let America's ground shake under the first Black-Coloured president, hooray!

(If my statements were false, then tell me)

Was my post invisible or just too big to bother reading?

People don't say Obama is a better pick unless:

A: You can make a post refuting all of my points in an educated manner, with FACTUAL reference.

or

B: Make a post that shows McCain to be far worse in the areas mentioned…


People need to realize bush hasn't been running the country for the past six years. We've been run by Harry Reed and Nancy Pelosi. Liberals control all of legislature. The president can only pass what is given to him to sign.

Now imagine if we had 3 liberal extremists running our country? What would happen to the careful system of checks and balances when every single branch of govt is socialistic?

I reserve the right to say "I told ya so" in 2-3 years when America no longer has an immigration problem because it will be socialist and no one will want to come. So long to the land of the free if Obama gets elected…

EDIT: I'm pretty sure that Carter was the worst president ever. People couldn't even get fuel at the pumps because the stations had none. Thank God for Reagan who saved us… (I think people have forgotten what happens when liberals control all three branches, happened with carter, and America took it up the rear… grab the lube, its happening again!)

Obama Obama cmon Obama win this thing:p

Thanks Brown, you put it all out there.

I would simply add that his tax plans go against numerous proven empirical economic studies about the effect of taxes on the US economy and on Middle Class workers.

http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/austan.goolsbee/research/cps.pdf

That paper is by Obama's own Senior Tax Policy adviser, and proves that corporate tax cuts are passed on to workers in the form of wage growth.

"This paper has used data on the wages of capital goods workers during a period of substantial change to the tax cost of capital to show that at least some of the benefit of tax subsidies to investment actually accrue to capital goods producing workers through higher relative wages. A 10% ITC (or other reduction in the cost of capital) raises the relative wage of capital goods workers between 2 and 4%. Relative wages rise more for production workers, workers with low education and union workers, consistent with the view that these factors also influence mobility across sectors.

The idea that wages rise when the demand for an industry’s output increases has important implications for the evaluation of investment tax subsidies. Policies intended to stimulate investment demand may, in fact, lead to large windfalls for capital suppliers and their production workers in the short-run."

http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/tax-policy/library/ota101.pdf

This is a recent study from December 2007. Found essentially the same thing. If you cut corporate taxes, a large portion of those tax cuts are passed on to Middle Class workers in the form of wage increases.

"The corporate tax could be borne by some combination of the shareholders of corporations, investors in all capital through a decrease in the overall return to capital, workers through a decrease in wages, and customers through increased output prices. Depending on how this tax burden plays out in equilibrium, the corporate tax can either increase or decrease the progressivity of the tax system. Furthermore, given the possibility that the corporate income tax creates a variety of distortions, the economic burden of the tax exceeds the amount of revenue raised by the tax;"

"A common conclusion of these empirical studies is that labor seems to bear a substantial burden from the corporate income tax."

McCain says we need to cut corporate taxes to be more competitive with the rest of the world. He says that our corporate tax rate is 35%, while places like Ireland have a tax rate of 11%, which takes away jobs from the US. Obama's response is that due to the many tax loopholes in the code, US corporations have a low "effective tax rate". And then, confusingly, he says he will close all the loopholes! Huh?

If these loopholes are the only thing keeping our corporations competitive, why on earth would have vow to close all of them? According to the above empirical studies, this would drive down Middle Class wage growth, and stunt job growth, as would his tax hikes on investment capital gains.

They say that in the end the Middle Class pays for everything, and this is no different. Obama says he's going to tax the rich, and he ends up putting that tax burden on the Middle Class.

The biggest problem seems to be that most voters are not informed enough to see through the house of card Obama is offering, and exposing it doesn't translate into a 10 second sound bite, so it never gets mentioned by anyone in the media.

Hearing Obama's plan to drive down middle class jobs and wages to give a handout to people that don't pay taxes in the first place would make Karl Marx very happy if he were still alive today.

I agree with everything that Brown has said except the nuclear energy being efficient (as far as i knew, we didnt even get half of the potential energy with it (not that it still isnt cost effective), though i could very well be wrong :)).

After reading your and tarajunkey's posts i would have been converted to a McCain supprter, but i already had known Obama would be a terrible president :).

I like McCain.

From: noidea
Palin's a whore, Bidens a racist, Obama doesn't know what he's talking about, McCain… Well, he's a war monger.

The country is Fucked, no matter how you look at it.

Bit rough, but you sort of got it there…

From: Brown
Was my post invisible or just too big to bother reading

We don't have to agree now, have we? Why would I not be allowed to post my own opinion?

Quotes like this

From: Brown
I'm all for helping those who are in a tough financial situation. They need enough to get them going again, not life long welfare were there is no need or reward for work. If you punish profit and reward laziness we would end up like Cuba and our country will go to a communistic hell. There will be no innovation or desire to better any business in seek of profit if it will be taxed away for the unemployed. The economy will come to a stand still. Jobs will be cut, and more and more will rely on welfare and govt services which will be funded by an increasingly shrinking economy.

Obamas plan will not just be tax cuts, but a redistribution of wealth. When everyone is pushed to be equal in profit there is no incentive for work. Hard work, risk, and business smarts should be rewarded with THEIR profits, not taxes which will send THEIR profits to others.

simply state YOUR entire view on politics. You may call his kind of politics bad, but that doesn't mean they actually are… That is just your view. I also see alot of guessing in your post, you can't say there simply will be less jobs, only time will tell…

From: Brown

The USA was founded liberty and a free market, not socialistic government restriction. People left Europe because too much government had a stranglehold on the people. Increased govt is a bad thing.

We can see how well George Bush and his party's tactics went…

From: Brown
Vote for Obama if you would like less jobs and higher prices, in the name of taking money from those who run the economy.

Let's just see how it works out now, shall we?

From: Brown
Energy.
———————
This issue makes me wonder how anyone can vote for him. We cannot fix the energy false energy crisis by filling our damn tires and spending billions of OUR dollars on inefficient windmills. This energy in the name of going green is absolutely pointless because gorebal warming showed itself to be a ruse, where the earth is cooling the ice age warming ice age crew is pushing its next false cause.
The united states has MORE un-drilled oil than the middle east! We have enough to pay of our debts and maintain a steady price for an estimated 75 years. 75 years is plenty of time for new innovations for energy productions to become more affordable, practical, and cheap. We need to let the market and private investors decide when to switch to alternative energies, not the government. The switch to alternative energy sources should switch when it becomes more profitable and affordable to use through innovation and necessity; not imposed necessity at a time when they are costly and inefficient; not when our current energy possibilities are being blocked by greenists who think that driller will somehow kill the spotted owl.

It's quite easy to get that oil by invading certain countries. Also, I like how you say global warning showed itself to be a ruse. I wouldn't want to have you be in charge of America… Don't you actually read and investigate on the current supplies of oil and gas in the world? You are making exactly the same fault as Bush is making, and so will McCain, if his politics are like yours…
You should think about the future rather than now… 75 years, that is probably around YOUR lifetime… Don't you care about what will happen to your children and their children, and the children thereafter…?

From: Brown
Drilling our own oil will not only help the people and the economy, it will help national security. Why give billions to nations that want nothing more than for us to end our way of life? Middle eastern nations who we are paying for oil use that money to fund anti-american organizations and many of which are terrorist organizations.

Oh boohoo! The world is after America now? Let's just bomb the rest of the world while we are at it! The middle east wasn't after you really, just some terrorists, and terrorists are after everyone… Not everyone who lives under a dictator is a terrorist, now? You only made the normal people rage at you too, simply because you destroyed their lives, and the way they live!

Please don't feel offended. This is not what I think, but I think we should have a little joke in this interesting, yet heating-up thread.

From: Brown
Nuclear energy is also highly important in the process of gaining energy independence. Its extremely efficient, clean, safe, and is even renewable. Nuclear waste can be reused as fuel. I fail to see why so many liberals in America are so opposed to it. The most liberal nations like France and Sweden have no oil, but are exporters of energy. Why? They are 75% nuclear.

Nuclear energy is only a bridge to green energy, and no more. It is simply depleting another source of energy of the earth, rather than saving the earth.
It is also, in fact, very unhealthy, as you probably knew, and generally not good for mankind, and it's children.

At the last bit of your post, it just made me laugh, really. Who cares what Obama believes? I could care less if he was Muslim, Christian, Gay, Asian, Black or White. Isn't it all about his idea's, rather than his past?
I don't think Obama is the perfect candidate, but he definitely will be alot better for America.
Why do you want more warmongers?

Get your facts straight.

EDIT: All the 'you' words, are of course nothing but a reference to America's politics over the last 8 years.

DANG, never let Wizzup? into a thread about something he can discuss, you always fail.

www.obamaisaterrorist.com

Edit:

From: noodlesalan

And NO BASHING canidates using false statements, like "Obama is a Terrorist" or "Palin is a complete moron".

:(

From: N1ke!
DANG, never let Wizzup? into a thread about something he can discuss, you always fail.

He didn't fail… Wait until he actually replies to that stuff.

Nike, debating in a runescape forum isn't exactly the epitome of difficult. Stop nut riding him…


"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown View Post
I'm all for helping those who are in a tough financial situation. They need enough to get them going again, not life long welfare were there is no need or reward for work. If you punish profit and reward laziness we would end up like Cuba and our country will go to a communistic hell. There will be no innovation or desire to better any business in seek of profit if it will be taxed away for the unemployed. The economy will come to a stand still. Jobs will be cut, and more and more will rely on welfare and govt services which will be funded by an increasingly shrinking economy.

Obamas plan will not just be tax cuts, but a redistribution of wealth. When everyone is pushed to be equal in profit there is no incentive for work. Hard work, risk, and business smarts should be rewarded with THEIR profits, not taxes which will send THEIR profits to others."

——————
simply state YOUR entire view on politics. You may call his kind of politics bad, but that doesn't mean they actually are… That is just your view. I also see alot of guessing in your post, you can't say there simply will be less jobs, only time will tell…"
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Wrong. History and common sense will tell, and its bound to repeat itself. Jimmy Carter, widely agreed as the worst president in the past 100 years; he raised business taxes and artificially reduced the oil supply in the name of being green. Fuel stations had no fuel, and the ones that did had lines miles long to get some. Jobs were at an all time low because small business was taxed to hell while the unemployed reaped the benefits of the taxes through wellfare.

What encouragement/push is there to grow as a small business when if you hit that $200,000 tax wall. New business won't want to grow knowing that the second they hit $200,000 profit they get a wall of taxes thrown on them. When you punish innovation, economic drive comes to a stand still.

The top 5% of tax payers here pay for over 50% of all taxes. The top 10% pay for 65% of all taxes. The top 50% pay for 95% of all taxes. The top 1% is paying more than ten times the federal income taxes than the bottom 50%!

Increasing the taxes even more on those who control the jobs will kill the jobs. Do you honestly believe that big business pays their taxes? They don't pay their taxes, we pay their taxes thanks to cut jobs and higher prices. Unless you don't work for a business or buy from a business, Obama's tax increases for business will hurt you.

Please take an economic class…

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We can see how well George Bush and his party's tactics went…
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How many times does this need to be said? BUSH DOESNT RUN THE COUNTRY. Liberals have controlled congress for the past six years. Bush can only sign bills that are given to him by congress. Also: McCain is not Bush. Bush is not his party. Bush is a liberal even if he is a republican. He is a republican in name only, giving a bad rep to the rest of "his" party.

Now time for me to explain the current crisis.

The CRA (Community Reinvestment Act), which was so beloved by libs is what has caused our current banking problem. What we are see'ing is not due to Bush, but the after effects of Clinton and what was passed during his time as president.

The CRA was made to require banks to give out a government controlled number of sub prime loans. Now freddy and fanny went unchecked and started buying up these loans. McCain pushed to regulate them, while liberals like Obama voted against it.

These loans which were required to be given by liberals to people who could not afford them is what screwed the economy. Now the funny thing people don't quite hear about is that Obama was the lead lawyer in suing the banks for not giving enough sub prime loans. Funny how the guy who has direct responsibility in the current crisis is the one who claims he can fix it with more taxes and spending…

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"It's quite easy to get that oil by invading certain countries. Also, I like how you say global warning showed itself to be a ruse. I wouldn't want to have you be in charge of America… Don't you actually read and investigate on the current supplies of oil and gas in the world? You are making exactly the same fault as Bush is making, and so will McCain, if his politics are like yours…
You should think about the future rather than now… 75 years, that is probably around YOUR lifetime… Don't you care about what will happen to your children and their children, and the children thereafter…?"

———

Do you just skim over my words or ignore them?

First about our oil supplies:
http://aggravated.blogspot.com/2007/05/us-has-more-oil-than-in-all-middle-east.html

"75 years is plenty of time for new innovations for energy productions to become more affordable, practical, and cheap."

I see as a scripter you notice numbers more than words. 75 years as in that's 75 years of proven energy while we research renewables. At our current state, wind, solar, and tidal are too inefficient and expensive to be practical. We need to drill and have nuclear while we work to make the others more efficient and affordable.

———————–

"Oh boohoo! The world is after America now? Let's just bomb the rest of the world while we are at it! The middle east wasn't after you really, just some terrorists, and terrorists are after everyone… Not everyone who lives under a dictator is a terrorist, now? You only made the normal people rage at you too, simply because you destroyed their lives, and the way they live!"
————————

How old are you, 10? Do you know what Iran is? Do you know where the Sudanese govt sends their money? The Sudanese govt funds the Janjeweed (sp?), as in they fund the genocide in Darfur with oil money. Do you think terrorist groups magically turn their oil into money?

Drilling our own oil will also help drop GLOBAL oil prices. Please tell me when there has ever been an increase of supply with a static demand where the prices have gone up. The only countries that should be opposed to the US sending less money to unstable nations are the unstable nations themselves.

Also Obama doesn't even have an official plan for drilling. He says "he will look at some drilling". You need either 1 of 2 things to become energy independent. a: Lots and lots of money for inefficient windmills (money no nation has) or b: Oil, something the US has lots of, but greenists won't allow to be drilled.

————————
Now about ACORN.

ACORN is a group in the US which illegally registers thousands and thousands of false votes for the liberal canidate. Obama trained its current leaders. Obama gave $800,000 to this group, denying that they illegally register votes. Please tell me how this is some how not cheating? Obama also was their lawyer in suit the state of Iowa for ACORN. He still denies he has any association with this radical group.

Obama's only executive experience in transfering the hundreds of thousands of dollars hes received from Freddy and Fanny. (Isn't it odd that the people who screwed the economy love Obama?)


If you want more, ill post more.

Wizzup, i respect you as a coder and as person, but please do not try to act as if you know about American politics from another country. You have only said what I hear on a daily basis from those who are ignorant towards politics.

You can't fill your tank with hope and change.

EDIT: Oops double post, meant to hid edit.

No, I don't need more of your theories, simply because I see we will not agree, and because I don't like the tone you use to argue. I'll post a few comments of the parts I found worthy commenting on.

How old are you, 10? Do you know what Iran is? Do you know where the Sudanese govt sends their money? The Sudanese govt funds the Janjeweed (sp?), as in they fund the genocide in Darfur with oil money. Do you think terrorist groups magically turn their oil into money?

I don't see what my age has to do with Terrorists, or the Elections. Nor does age represent intelligence.
What I was stating is that the United Stated do not need to further waste 'your' dollars on the Army, and that the United States are way too dominant when you look at the average intelligence of the decisions it makes. Something needs to change, and it won't happen when McCain becomes president.

Drilling our own oil will also help drop GLOBAL oil prices. Please tell me when there has ever been an increase of supply with a static demand where the prices have gone up. The only countries that should be opposed to the US sending less money to unstable nations are the unstable nations themselves.

Also Obama doesn't even have an official plan for drilling. He says "he will look at some drilling". You need either 1 of 2 things to become energy independent. a: Lots and lots of money for inefficient windmills (money no nation has) or b: Oil, something the US has lots of, but greenists won't allow to be drilled.

Again, why do you need to suck all the oil out of the earth? Would it not be better to leave it intact? I think European countries are on a better way, they actually do try to keep their promises about 'green' energy.

Apart from that, taking your vision on energy, and how it is becoming more efficient… Maybe you should save some oil for future techniques?

Now about ACORN.

ACORN is a group in the US which illegally registers thousands and thousands of false votes for the liberal canidate. Obama trained its current leaders. Obama gave $800,000 to this group, denying that they illegally register votes. Please tell me how this is some how not cheating? Obama also was their lawyer in suit the state of Iowa for ACORN. He still denies he has any association with this radical group.

Obama's only executive experience in transfering the hundreds of thousands of dollars hes received from Freddy and Fanny. (Isn't it odd that the people who screwed the economy love Obama?)

If Obama really cheated, you will find out soon. Do you really think things like that would be hidden? :)
Peace…

()bama ftw :)

Mccain will die in 1 year and Palin will take over, we are doomed than.

jp.
but yeah i posted my reasons and we had a big discussion in the general news sect.

Nuclear energy is only a bridge to green energy, and no more. It is simply depleting another source of energy of the earth, rather than saving the earth.
It is also, in fact, very unhealthy, as you probably knew, and generally not good for mankind, and it's children.

nuclear fission then FTW? then it wont be depletatory.

Again, why do you need to suck all the oil out of the earth? Would it not be better to leave it intact? I think European countries are on a better way, they actually do try to keep their promises about 'green' energy

does it matter? We suck it out now, we suck it out later, we wait until theres more, doesnt make a difference.

If Obama really cheated, you will find out soon. Do you really think things like that would be hidden?

it took quite a while for many surprising facts to float to the top (some of which have just been discovered), who's to say that it wont become more widely known. I know people that still dont know about rev Wright being connected to Obama. And hast he cheated yet? the election hasnt happened yet.

i brings this! *holds up youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUdjhKbImwE&feature=related)* to tha stand!

what i find the most funny is how people can believe that the government can pass laws forcing banks to give sub-prime mortgages.


could you explain to me exactly how someone would enforce that law? how can you force someone to sell something.
you can easily force someone to not sell something, but not the other way around.

so you think a lawyer is going to go up to a bank and say "John Smith came in last week asking for a loan, you guys turned him down, IM SUEING!"


also, you assume banks are powerless to stop it!

banks have massive lobby groups, they would never allow such a law to be passed that goes against their interests so badly.




as for you wizzup, i think you arguments are falling on deaf ears.
you come from a country so liberal its legalized cannabis and assisted suicide.
you're talking to a country so conservative it tries to ban abortion and the teaching of evolution.

when you say
don't you think you should conserve your oil,
they'll say
no, we should pump it all out, sell it and use the money to buy a truck

TBH… move to Canada.

Then when Canada is screwed, move to England, etc.

Lets all become libertarians! Yay!

McCain might die, but who trust someone like Palin, I mean I'd rather have a rash then have her rule america. She's power - hungry just like McCain and his band wagon. Those who loved McCain must be starting to get some relisation of his choices. 3rd Debate came and went - 2 -1 to Obama. Looks like Obama's going to win!

BTW, Hi Five p1nky!

Obama = win! :P

both of them could die. he obviously not a frail old man like Bob here, so he has just as much chance as Obama to die within the next 4 years.

From: NaumanAkhlaQ
McCain might die, but who trust someone like Palin, I mean I'd rather have a rash then have her rule america. She's power - hungry just like McCain and his band wagon. Those who loved McCain must be starting to get some relisation of his choices. 3rd Debate came and went - 2 -1 to Obama. Looks like Obama's going to win!

BTW, Hi Five p1nky!

Do you have anything against her, or are you in a bandwagon with the liberal media who is trying to smear her as much as possible?

From: bullzeye95
Do you have anything against her, or are you in a bandwagon with the liberal media who is trying to smear her as much as possible?

Yeah, it's funny how the media is ALL OVER Palin's case over being unintelligent, but it's Biden that's making all the idiotic statements.



On September 9th, he asked a guy in a wheelchair to stand up so everyone could see him!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2mzbuRgnI4

He thinks JOBS is a three letter word…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djpqD2WrsQE

If Palin said anything like this, it would be on an endless loop 24/7 on the news channels. Since Biden says it, they ignore it completely.

Totally biased.

Obama is going to be assasinated for sure, then, who the hell's going to trust Biden?

Don't forget the TV comment.

From: Yakman
what i find the most funny is how people can believe that the government can pass laws forcing banks to give sub-prime mortgages.


could you explain to me exactly how someone would enforce that law? how can you force someone to sell something.
you can easily force someone to not sell something, but not the other way around.

so you think a lawyer is going to go up to a bank and say "John Smith came in last week asking for a loan, you guys turned him down, IM SUEING!"


also, you assume banks are powerless to stop it!

banks have massive lobby groups, they would never allow such a law to be passed that goes against their interests so badly.

You obviously do not know much about america :\… IT HAPPENED THE LAW WAS PASSED. Do you wanna know how it was enforced? Its called the IRS ;) Aka The Internal Revenue Service, how we collect taxes..

From: Yakman

as for you wizzup, i think you arguments are falling on deaf ears.
you come from a country so liberal its legalized cannabis and assisted suicide.
you're talking to a country so conservative it tries to ban abortion and the teaching of evolution.

when you say
don't you think you should conserve your oil,
they'll say
no, we should pump it all out, sell it and use the money to buy a truck

Personally i think cannabis should be legalised (nothing more though). People will do it anyway, lots of crime happens (other than the actual act) because of it. And we can collect taxes on it…

Who has tried to ban the teaching of evolution? People in my school district (and surrounding areas) tryed to get people to teach what is wrong with the theory of evolution, absolutely NOTHING about religion and it was shot down. The school system (mainly colleges) are so liberal and biased that there have been stories of people being failed for writing a paper contrary to the professors beliefs. Who says oil is not replenishable? Sure at not near the capacity we are pumping out, but we should be opening up places so we can drill and investigating other alternative resources…

Idk its a very uphill battle for mccain atm. The hill is pretty steep for him.

If you did not know already, Obama's tax plans are to increase taxes on businesses and people that make more than 250,000 dollars a year, this would be 1 million dollars gros income in one presidential term. It should be apparent that most businesses and families do not bring in anywhere near 250,000 dollars each year. In fact, it is statiscally stated that 95% of American business and families bring in less than 250,000 per year. What is Obamas proposition regarding those that make up 95% of Americans? Simple, his proposition is to provide tax breaks so that people can begin to make enough money to have extra money at the end of the year, this is not currently the case, these tax breaks will allow for 95% of America to thrive due to the fact that their hard earned money is not being returned back to the government in excess as it is now. Five percent of Americans may see taxes increase slightly;however, do you honestly believe that people will lose 250,000 dollars to the goverment, that ruthless behavior causing the downfall of the entirety of the upper class? If so, you are extremely mistaken. With lower taxes for 95% of Americans, businesses will hardly be shipped to China. Currently, jobs are being shipped overseas, this is part of the reason for the poor economical status of the United States right now. Barack Obama intends to do whatever is possible to bring jobs back into the United States as well as create new jobs so that millions of Americans can find sources of employment that they currently cannot. Racism is not acceptable, even if Obama was Muslim, it would be insulting and unethical to use that against him, the United States strives to be a place of racial freedom, and it is people like you that judge people based on their race that disgrace the United States. If you have not gathered this from what I said before, Obama is not Muslim, he is African American. In addition, Barack Obama is not a terrorist, we would not tolerate a terrorist running for a political position, nor would a terrorist be voted for to the point that Barack Obama is at. Obama is a well-meaning, peaceful man that has the interests of the citizens of the United States at heart, and he will make the changes that are necessary for well being in the United States of America.

Everybody should check out glassbooth.org, you take a quiz and figure out which Candidates line up with your beliefs most

From: Bobarkinator
Everybody should check out glassbooth.org, you take a quiz and figure out which Candidates line up with your beliefs most

Wow nice find. Thanks for that.

Why increase anyone's taxes? Seriously? Is the economy doing so great that we can afford to raise taxes now?

If Obama wants to cut taxes for 95% of people, fine. Why does he have to punish another group? It's class warfare, plain and simple. It's preying on people's prejudice against a group they can't relate to. How is that any better than race baiting? If McCain was to go out there and inflame racism against Obama, he would be attacked mercilessly, but Obama has spent 2 years inflaming prejudices against the rich. There's a clear double standard.

Even Obama himself admitted that if the economy was doing poorly, he would have to reconsider whether to raise those taxes. He essentially admitted that they will stunt economic growth. That's really not something we can afford now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-W4GWjN2kg

That's the first debate from 1992. Listen at 4:20.

"I represent real hope for change." … "We must have the courage to change for hope in a better tomorrow."

Bush 41 replies that Clinton said the country was "coming apart at the seams". This was 1992! The cold war was over. We'd kicked Saddam Hussein's butt in the first Gulf War. The economy was in a relatively mild recession, but to hear Clinton talk it was cataclysmic.

Clinton and Obama are both AGITATORS. They prey on people's fears and uncertainties. They point fingers and blame their opponents for all your woes.

At the end of the day, I believe that America simply doesn't agree with most policies espoused by Democrats. They don't believe in socialism. They don't believe in redistribution of wealth. They don't believe in government control of their lives, or a cradle to grave nanny state. They don't believe in institutionalized racism through affirmative action. They don't believe in subjugating the individual to the government, or that paying taxes is a patriotic act.

And so, their only successful strategy is to identify the most convenient problem they can, agitate the voters into a state of hysteria over it, blame Republicans for it, and campaign on "changing hope for courageous change" or some such bunk.

The last time there was an open campaign for the hearts and minds of the voters was 2000. And even though Democrats had everything in their favor at the time, Bush won the election, because the voters simply prefer Republican positions on the issues most important to them.

Obama is a slick salesman, and more capable than most at selling his rhetoric, but it's just the same old dressed up socialism that voters have rejected for 30 years. He's likely to win now, but if he tries the same kind of stuff Clinton pulled in his first 2 years, he'll get the same result. Socialist Democrats voted out of Congress in droves in the midterm elections.

Courageous hope for change works great on the campaign trail, but not very well once you attempt to govern.

My results on GlassBooth.org

Nice site, Bob. :)