SRL Archive - Senior News and General

My ideas for the forum


pwnaz0r

2008-10-06 21:37:35

Hey guys, its been awhile since I have been here long (like 9 months maybe? :p). Anyways I have been back for a week and I just saw the whole situation with Starblaster.

I think that while he went about it in the completely wrong way, he did have some semi good points. Understand that the outcome of that situation has come and past, and some of us are angry, some upset with his remarks. but why did he do it? He was obviously in a position where he could change it if he wanted. Sort of hypocritical on the point of being "active" eh :).

Anyhow, if you think about it, he had a reason to have an outburst like that. You don't just create another account and give privileges to every forum for no reason. I know that another thread has been made about this (Smartzkid :p), but I don't know where that topic is necessarily going.

SO, this topic is just about my suggestions of what to do on the forum.

To keep people active in the forum, you are going to have to have some key elements in the design. Some of these principals apply to almost everything in life. It's why you buy a product, invest in stocks, script for runescape and/or run runescape scripts. The golden rule, is "What's in it for me?". This forum has to bring something to the table in order to gain more active participants. That's why I got involved in macro-ing. It was initially for money. Then it was becoming a member (kind of idea of fame). Then for the cups.

I could go on and on, but I do think that you get the point. So the question is how do you make this forum profitable to the public.

  • Needs to be simple to use - Whenever I go to forums where something is hard to use or I can't receive help I need, I just leave, because it is not profitable to me. The second rules of this idea is people want what they want now. It's human nature, and the sooner you can provide that, the better off they are, thus the better off we are as a forum. How to do this? I think pruning is one main thing this forum needs to do. And I'm talking about threads and members. I know that many have said this, but it's true, nothing great has been done. I'm not talking about members that have been away for 3 months, I'm talking about users that have been away for 3 years. I also think a huge thing would be to get the tutorial section up to status quo. Divide them into sections like DDTMs, Bitmaps, Looping, Basics, Colorfinding, Colors - Advanced, Reflection, etc. It would be alot easier, and to be honest more eye pleasing, which is a huge plus. I hear use search button alot, but I think if I were a new member, I would want to be able to go to tutorial section and see that done and be impressed with the way the forum is structured. Something to say, wow this place has it going on, I can learn about anything I want in a matter of seconds, at my own pace, find anything! rather than getting a responce "USE SEARCH BUTTON NOOB". And there is also one more thing I would like to tag on here. I would like to see more advanced tutorials, maybe more developers should be appointed, or the current developers should get together and start writing tutorials on those really advanced things they seem to know about to get the community active. I know I got bored with SRL last time because I literally knew everything this forum had to offer in the tutorials sections and much more, which was very difficult to find outside of this site. In conclusion of this point, more advanced tutorials = more advanced scripters = better scripts and possible more developer materials = more people using scripts and more developing SRL. That is the equation for community growth…
  • Needs to be goals to achieve - (crap accidently pressed back and lost this whole point, in short this is what I said). You need to create goals for scripters. To keep a growing audience you need to keep both scripters and script users happy. Script users will be happy if the scripts are quality, the more quality scripts, the more they will tell their friends, etc. So how then do you keep scripters happy? First thing that comes to mind is competitions, but they are a hassle to deal with, especially with one or two judges (take SB100's competitions as an example). They were long to grade, tedious, and overall unfair because everyone could join. By the third competition, alot of people weren't joining because the dev's were joining. Maybe its time for a new era of Competitions for SRL? I think that the post below me has some very good ideas, me and smartz thought of them. Public vote is a great idea by smartz. Unfairness will not be an issue because of all of the high level tutorials that will be out. Soon the scripting levels will level out and not be all over the place for members and non-members alike (those two are not on the same level, however, they will both level out within their own group). The script of the month idea is good I think. This could be how its done. Script of the month is posted in sticky. People script for it, encourage them to do the best they can, instruct no outside help. If any script is deemed good enough, or advanced enough, or best running, you could (a) enter it into srl member app for them (b) encourage them to do so © make the prize SRL membership.

I will write more on the other point later, I have alot. Sorry hate to leaves threads unfinished like this, but I have bigger responsibilities (homework :)). I will write about them later.

By the way, hopefully anything you take offensive to this will be dismissed by the fact that you asked as administrators on how to make this community better. Therefore, I am going about it in a civilized manner, using psychology and reason to find the roots of what makes a community good and I explain them the best I can, and give possible solutions.

Smartzkid

2008-10-06 22:28:37

MSN Brainstorm (me and pwnaz0r)


  • Another way to get people to be active would be to have more competitions; not so detailed as star's used to be, more of a competition of brute force - who's script can do X fastest?
  • Another way to get people active would be to have a different scripting 'theme' every month - the theme could be specific or general. After all scripts for the month are submitted, the one(s) with most srl stats/ most liked/ best scripted/ most creative would get awards (award categories: 'Community Favorite'; 'Longest Running'; 'Most Efficient'; 'Advanced Technique'?). To minimize required work on the part of admins, create an "activities board" - a committee (w/ separate forum) to oversee the monthly activities, and possibly judge scripts/ elect new members. The trick is to minimize amount of official judges needed, try to involve the community in the judging. Have a poll for the 'Community Favorite' category, and choose 'Most Efficient' & 'Longest Running' through SRL Stats. The only category that would have to be judged would be 'Advanced Technique' (or equivalent); and it wouldn't be so much a competition here, but more of an award. No reason why multiple scripts can't use 'advanced techniques'.
  • Also, Reflection not allowed? Only walking reflection allowed? I guess the committee would have to vote on that..

Ejjman

2008-10-06 23:05:48

From: Smartzkid
MSN Brainstorm (me and pwnaz0r)


  • Another way to get people to be active would be to have more competitions; not so detailed as star's used to be, more of a competition of brute force - who's script can do X fastest?
  • Another way to get people active would be to have a different scripting 'theme' every month - the theme could be specific or general. After all scripts for the month are submitted, the one(s) with most srl stats/ most liked/ best scripted/ most creative would get awards (award categories: 'Community Favorite'; 'Longest Running'; 'Most Efficient'; 'Advanced Technique'?). To minimize required work on the part of admins, create an "activities board" - a committee (w/ separate forum) to oversee the monthly activities, and possibly judge scripts/ elect new members. The trick is to minimize amount of official judges needed, try to involve the community in the judging. Have a poll for the 'Community Favorite' category, and choose 'Most Efficient' & 'Longest Running' through SRL Stats. The only category that would have to be judged would be 'Advanced Technique' (or equivalent); and it wouldn't be so much a competition here, but more of an award. No reason why multiple scripts can't use 'advanced techniques'.
  • Also, Reflection not allowed? Only walking reflection allowed? I guess the committee would have to vote on that..



Theme of the month = ++, get people motivated. judges choose best, then woot you get a sub bar making you scripter of them onth, kinda like employee of the month :)

I think it'd be reallyf un and get people involved, but the thing is, I am not motivated to compete with devs, because I know they know more. Hence making competitions srl only, juniors only(well maybe not them xP) but you get what I'msaying.

pwnaz0r

2008-10-06 23:38:57

Thats why more high level tutorials should be made, so you can compete with them

The Claw

2008-10-07 01:08:49

My ideas: Hurry up and (try to :p) prove me wrong - http://www.srl-forums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=467907&postcount=46

Narcle

2008-10-07 04:35:04

Reflection competitions would be a separate category imo. Because it is widely used now and should be in its own corner/side. Only reason I think it should have its own is because you can do way more precise work with it, and therefore can develop "advanced techniques" that work well.

Smartzkid

2008-10-07 15:45:16

From: Ejjman1
I think it'd be reallyf un and get people involved, but the thing is, I am not motivated to compete with devs, because I know they know more. Hence making competitions srl only, juniors only(well maybe not them xP) but you get what I'msaying.


Aye. Maybe two different 'levels' of challenges; one for jr mems and low par mems, and one for the higher ups.

pwnaz0r

2008-10-07 16:19:53

hah claw. I have set things like that aside for the time being. It takes alot of energy and work to type everything out and use my brain :p. I will eventually come back to that thread and will look at your response. I have purposely not looked at that forum because I can't waste my time there right now. I have to focus on school and such.

Anyways, what do you guys think of this one point? I will put the other ones up as soon as I get back from what I'm about to go to

Bobarkinator

2008-10-07 16:29:25

I think we need to make the forums more personalized to SRL. Right now it's only boards and membergroups. Most forums you go to have some extra features that directly pertain to the content of their site. For instance, most MMO forums will have a place to put your in game name and level and such.

Smartzkid

2008-10-07 16:38:29

Integrated stats would be amazing aswell…but I guess none of that is possible without Dankness here..

pwnaz0r

2008-10-07 20:29:47

Point #2 added

Smartzkid

2008-10-07 21:33:52

From: pwnaz0r
make the prize SRL membership.


Haha I thought of that just as I read it! Weird :p

Maybe if there isn't enough competition/advancedness in the jr mems section, we could allow the top few of each competition to compete in the next month's mems competition, if they finish top 3, they get mems? Or something like that, you know..?

Yeah, I think separation of jr member and member competitions would be wise. SSRL+ could have our own private competitions aswell :)

pwnaz0r

2008-10-08 18:05:24

Not to be rude, by no respects to be out of place, (ha), but isn't this exactly what SB100 was talking about? I posted this 3 days ago, well thought out ways to make this forum better, took my own time to type it all out, and talking with smartz and some other on msn brainstorming about ideas, yet not one administrator has posted. One moderator has posted, yet it was far off topic.

King of Knives

2008-10-10 19:47:40

From: pwnaz0r
Not to be rude, by no respects to be out of place, (ha), but isn't this exactly what SB100 was talking about?

If SB100 is so gloryful, he would've had the balls to say it out loud.
If you're talking about the same thing as SB100 on your normal SRL-user, why THE HELL didn't he do it?

If he had any serious ideas for anything, he would've said it on his respected user instead of creating a new one, remodelling SRL-Forums to fit his spionage purposes and flaming more than half of the SRL staff.

Regardless if we're on the same subject as StarBlaster, he's still a jackass.

That's all I had to say.

Actually, it isn't. The competitions and stuff sounds like a good idea to me.

-Knives

pwnaz0r

2008-10-11 00:17:02

I never defended him, said he was right, or anything. The fact remains, however, that he said it was happening and it happened. And it happened again after i posted that last thing :\. Still awaiting a admins response?

King of Knives

2008-10-11 04:58:28

From: pwnaz0r
I never defended him, said he was right, or anything. The fact remains, however, that he said it was happening and it happened. And it happened again after i posted that last thing :\. Still awaiting a admins response?

I apologize.
The rant wasn't meant to be against any of your posts, more like a general…err…'contribution'.

And what do you mean by "he said it was happening". What was happening?

-Knives

Wizzup?

2008-10-11 06:11:10

From: pwnaz0r
Not to be rude, by no respects to be out of place, (ha), but isn't this exactly what SB100 was talking about? I posted this 3 days ago, well thought out ways to make this forum better, took my own time to type it all out, and talking with smartz and some other on msn brainstorming about ideas, yet not one administrator has posted. One moderator has posted, yet it was far off topic.


I've read over this thread several times, and I did not have time to respond yet. You always seem to make long posts, and I have to filter out your points. ;)

What I think is that, how you describe what needs to be done is fine, but not all of the actual solutions please me.

  • Pruning. How does that make the forum more attractive to outsiders? And I doubt there are a lot of inactive members, too.
  • I think I have pruned the inactive SRL-Members about 1 years ago. And some of them that had not visited in a long time, I had to give back their status when they came back.
  • The tutorial section - Certainly they need to be restructured. It is a huge task to do so.
  • I partly agree on the sections. I think there should also be a TPointArray in that list, but that is just because I know everything can be done with TPointArray's. ;) Question is, how will it happen? I'm willing to make the actual structure, right now. But I don't feel like moving all the Tutorials. We'll work out something.
  • Advanced tutorials. Sure. A problem is that SCAR isn't that advanced by itself.
  • In fact, SCAR very limited. But I am sure some advanced Tutorials can be made.
  • Splitting up the scripts section in 'Godlike - Advanced - Normal - Poor' (to give a real plain example) doesn't seem cool to me.
  • It will not be good for the scripts made by the average user on SRL. You could make a section that contains some totally finished scripts, that work rather nicely. But don't divide the others into sections. If I were a new member to this forum, and I would work hard to make a script, I would not be pleased if it was thrown in the 'Poor' section. The section 'First/New Scripts' should remain.
  • Competitions per SRL-Rank you say? Sounds fine… Although I think that some Junior Members can script better than SRL Members. Personally I would mind using a bit less rules than StarBlaster100 did.

What would you like to see tutorials on? I might be able to make some.

pwnaz0r

2008-10-11 20:19:53

From: Wizzup?
I've read over this thread several times, and I did not have time to respond yet. You always seem to make long posts, and I have to filter out your points. ;)

What I think is that, how you describe what needs to be done is fine, but not all of the actual solutions please me.

  • Pruning. How does that make the forum more attractive to outsiders? And I doubt there are a lot of inactive members, too.
  • I think I have pruned the inactive SRL-Members about 1 years ago. And some of them that had not visited in a long time, I had to give back their status when they came back.
  • The tutorial section - Certainly they need to be restructured. It is a huge task to do so.
  • I partly agree on the sections. I think there should also be a TPointArray in that list, but that is just because I know everything can be done with TPointArray's. ;) Question is, how will it happen? I'm willing to make the actual structure, right now. But I don't feel like moving all the Tutorials. We'll work out something.
  • Advanced tutorials. Sure. A problem is that SCAR isn't that advanced by itself.
  • In fact, SCAR very limited. But I am sure some advanced Tutorials can be made.
  • Splitting up the scripts section in 'Godlike - Advanced - Normal - Poor' (to give a real plain example) doesn't seem cool to me.
  • It will not be good for the scripts made by the average user on SRL. You could make a section that contains some totally finished scripts, that work rather nicely. But don't divide the others into sections. If I were a new member to this forum, and I would work hard to make a script, I would not be pleased if it was thrown in the 'Poor' section. The section 'First/New Scripts' should remain.
  • Competitions per SRL-Rank you say? Sounds fine… Although I think that some Junior Members can script better than SRL Members. Personally I would mind using a bit less rules than StarBlaster100 did.

What would you like to see tutorials on? I might be able to make some.


Well, I don't remember saying that post about dividing scripts into godlike, etc. But if I did, forget that one :).

Anyways, Yeah, i know SCAR is not very advanced on its own. Again, I am just the instigator. I can't tell you those tutorials, because frankly, I haven't been back long enough to know what all new things we have come across :).

Narcle

2008-10-11 21:43:38

@Wizzup
So yeah… the Tutorials have been looked at a lot and I know Hobbit was working on organizing them but then you said you were going to do a better method? Is it possible to assign some people to a tutorial team to get it done faster? Idk how this could be done, but maybe enlighten us on the system you were thinking about? Otherwise we should figure out a good system.

Increasing SRL activity? Eh competitions might… but from what I've seen in the past they weren't that popular. Now toss in an incentive to do them Competition cup/ other possible rewards on the forums then it might increase in attendance.

@All other stuff mentioned
I was surprised "pruning" was done at all. All forums I've been in in the past this was never done. The other things I think are all fine as is.

Hobbit

2008-10-11 22:01:57

From: Narcle
@Wizzup
So yeah… the Tutorials have been looked at a lot and I know Hobbit was working on organizing them but then you said you were going to do a better method?


Well we're obviously still waiting on that one to happen.

Narcle

2008-10-11 22:06:23

From: Hobbit
Well we're obviously still waiting on that one to happen.


Yeah… I've been bugging him on IRC but he kinda shrugged it off. Maybe I'll bug the shit out of him later. hehe

pwnaz0r

2008-10-11 22:13:29

Why not just make a group and give them priveledges and stuff, like people that seem interested in making the forums better, and let them do it. People you can trust, and you would have to run it by the admins first?

Just have a people that will do it, create one subforum here in srlmake it a vote in SSRL and if it votes yes, then the people on the commitee can get to work on it.

Wizzup?

2008-10-12 12:57:27

From: pwnaz0r
Why not just make a group and give them priveledges and stuff, like people that seem interested in making the forums better, and let them do it. People you can trust, and you would have to run it by the admins first?

Just have a people that will do it, create one subforum here in srlmake it a vote in SSRL and if it votes yes, then the people on the commitee can get to work on it.


My plan was the following:

  • Remake the Tutorial Forum. (With SubForums, etc)
  • Assign Moderators for that Section, as I was hoping to do with more sections.
  • Get some forum moving/copying done.
  • Make the search, if there's still a use for it.

Widget

2008-10-12 20:33:01

With the Tutorial Island forum, how about you sort by difficulty, then subsort by type (like TPAs would all be in the intermediate or whatever forum. Some things could probably be in two or more difficulty groups). Right now the TPA01 type of sorting is rather annoying, it forces you to search unless it's at the top.

I'll mod for a forms subsubforum(s) :D

pwnaz0r

2008-10-12 20:48:09

I dont know about doing it by difficulty then type. If I was looking for something in tutorial seciton, I would just want to go to that section, and look for the name. Maybe suggest a tutorial forum (if we don't already have one). And maybe just one more that doesn't fit in, like Advanced, that covers really wierd stuff, because if not, you would have to make a subforum for every single little thing…

Smartzkid

2008-10-13 15:53:20

IMO keep it simple. Maybe make a basics section, but don't sort every topic by difficulty. That'd make it a pain to find anything.