SRL Archive - Senior News and General

Well, you are all probably wondering what this is about. Over the last week and a bit I have has several SRL Members, who shall remain nameless, come to me with their opinions. They all believe that the SRL Developers are too seclusive and ignore the suggestions of SRL Members. They all really wanted to help update SRL and believe that if the devs allowed them to help and gave them projects that maybe it would have been fixed by now.

I must say I agree with them. We have some very talented people in SRL who aren't devs. Using their talent to your advantage would be a good thing. It also would increase productivity.

Discuss.

-Hobbit

I agree, this would help the devs, but what are the devs for if the SRL members can do the same things?
I don't really care either way, I was just throwing that out there.

That's why we have the Development forum.. But, this time, the Devs were fairly quick themselves, so no need to take the member functions. We've used (and are still using) fixes from SRL members.

Well it has been what? 10 days now?

I think what they are meaning is instead of SRL Members making fixes for things that are already fixed and wasting there time (Or atleast to them it feels a waste of time because they are getting no acknowledge meant and feel they are being ignored) maybe the devs or someone could make a list of the smaller tasks so they can focus on the larger.

Maybe make a post. Here is what needs to be done. Those willing work on this list while we tackle the rest, then when we are done what we need to do if there is anything left we will help complete.

1. It could make the Member feel A LOT more useful and that their effort is being appreciated.. Because i know I'm not feeling appreciated for my effort put into the update so I have stopped trying to help all together because I keep being treated like a worthless piece of shit.

2. Cut all the smaller tasks out of the way to get the larger ones done faster.

3. Possibly cut down on the turn around time

The fixes themselves didn't take long at all. That's not the reason we haven't released the update yet. It's because we want to perfect the antirandoms before releasing the new version. Also because the new SMART has to be produced without reflection and released. Tell any SRL members that if they can do that, we will happily take it… :duh:

Also, what's the point in releasing a new version with just a couple of small fixes, and then another version very soon after which is the main update? It will cause too many problems with people updating revs and people's scripts not working.

There is nothing stopping them creating a few temp fixes by themselves and releasing those.

So to sum up, We do not want to release a half assed version of SRL.

From: Starblaster100
The fixes themselves didn't take long at all. That's not the reason we haven't released the update yet. It's because we want to perfect the antirandoms before releasing the new version. Also because the new SMART has to be produced without reflection and released. Tell any SRL members that if they can do that, we will happily take it… :duh:

Also, what's the point in releasing a new version with just a couple of small fixes, and then another version very soon after which is the main update? It will cause too many problems with people updating revs and people's scripts not working.

There is nothing stopping them creating a few temp fixes by themselves and releasing those.

So to sum up, We not not want to release a half assed version of SRL.

You misunderstood what I was meaning.
After the small fixes are done I don't mean do a mini release. They would just be added into the update. But then also people could update themselves while they wait if they wish. But then the devs could focus on the more time consuming things, like they are now as you said, from the beginning without having to worry about the tiny things that could easily be done by SRL members. Nit to mention making them feel more useful and appreciated.

I got absolutely nothing from that post.

However

I'm sure if they were true SRL members, they would be able to update the couple of functions that broke themselves, or at least be able to copy and paste the functions which other SRL members have fixed for them.

Why do they need the 'official' rev to be released to continue to auto or their own name to be in the SRL include to make them feel useful?

You don't need an updated version of SRL to be able to create / update a script. You just need the procedure / function names.

Yet again not understanding.

So to sum up, We not not want to release a half assed version of SRL.

I did not mean make a release when small stuff is updated and another one when large is done.

What I mean was…

Instead of the devs working on the tiny things (as fast as you almighty and powerful devsmay do it) pass it over to the SRL Members so you can spend more of your time right away on the things like randoms instead or the tiny things. Yes yes it may not be much time gain, but atleast its something. And I'm not saying adding in their names to feel useful.

[Sarcasm]
What the hell, why even bother putting their fixes in. Knock yourself out do it all yourself. But maybe to make them feel less condescended by you guys, throw out a list anyway. Who gives a shit if you do anything with it, atleast they will feel like they are helping. Thats all they want to do is help. They don't care about becoming a dev. They don't care about getting their name into SRL. THEY JUST PLAIN OLD WANT TO HELP or atleast feel like they are helping.
[/Sarcasm]

Think of it as daddy and his 4 year old working on the car. The for year old wants to help, so you give him a menial job that improves it no amount what so ever, but in doing that, you give that four year old the satisfying feeling of being help, whether they actually are or not, they will never know.

So why be selfish and say "No we got it" and throw them a bone. Give them the satisfaction of feeling like they are being helpful. Not that hard….

Edit:

From: SRL Member
I am actually a little bit offended. They prolly think we want do it for the glory. I just think the reason we are all in srl is so that we can better srl. And it makes us feel good if we actually do something that benifits everyone. Thats what every scripter wants
Or at least contribute
We arnt all hy

Well then make the dev SVN for public read.. I think it's time to play "open cards" with SRL.

You are comparing the SRL members to a 4 year old? How patronizing of you.

Imagine if we give them a list (which would have comprised of about 3 things) and say "here, fix this". SRL is then released, and they find out that what they fixed was fixed within the first day of the new update being released, and what we actually told them to do was useless. Yea… that would make them feel good about themselves… all warm and fuzzy inside…

Remember, there are a lot of us, and not all of us work on the same thing at once. That's the beauty of having so many devs. Someone is always working on something else, and things are fixed even before you know they have been broken. How many freaky forester solvers did we end up with? 3, was it?

Whats the point in sending out a pointless list to a lot of smart individuals if there is nothing to fix in the first place? That is wasting time, and that will not make them feel good.

Now you are wasting my time; I have work to do for SRL, so I'm out of this thread.

From: Starblaster100
You are comparing the SRL members to a 4 year old? How patronizing of you.

I'm sick and tired of you hard assed "I'm so much greater and smarter then you" attitude. This the exact damn thing I and everyone else is talking about. We are tired of our suggestions being shot down and ignored by people like you!
Its starting to really piss me off, after the amount i do around here for you be always be such a fucking asshole to me. Admit it everytime i try to talk to you, you always ending being so much greater then little old helpful Hobbit.

I'm sick and tired of keeping my mouth shut. I cannot deal with it anymore.

Star, you are and always have been a fucking asshole to me and I do not think it will ever change. Atleast the other admins value or atleast humor my, and everyone elses input.

Star here is a little tip: Lighten up and get some damn people skills. Cause I'm done too.

Goodnight.

When I was a member and there became some update, I think it was the SRL 4 interface update or something, when I asked Wizz all the time on MSN if I could do anything, but he said he could fix it in 30 minutes, and well, he pretty much did.

Thinking of it later, it would've slowed him down, him needing to list me something to do, which he can do himself in the time I would've started up RS and logged in.


That's about it for my two cents, if it would be efficient for SRL Members to help in many but small updates, they need to check what was updated and do them. Devs don't know what other devs have gotten done, I made a SetBrightness, but then I found out Zeph had made SetAudio and SetGraphics for both logged in and not, so if you want to fix something, the best bet is to do it instead of waiting for someone to come and say wether or not something has been done already, and then ask if it could be any use…


Meh.

From: Hobbit
You misunderstood what I was meaning.
After the small fixes are done I don't mean do a mini release. They would just be added into the update. But then also people could update themselves while they wait if they wish. But then the devs could focus on the more time consuming things, like they are now as you said, from the beginning without having to worry about the tiny things that could easily be done by SRL members. Nit to mention making them feel more useful and appreciated.

So you mean posting the updated functions? That would help, but then people start working on other functions (and so will the devs). That will result in members working on other functions, maybe the same function a developer is working on. If the member posts his function and the developer posts his function a bit later, I think that will make the member feel more useless than when he posts his function and let other members use it (assuming the developers' function is better).

I also don't really know what you mean by tiny things that could be done by SRL members, because (when I look at Zephyrs new functions) it's definitely not tiny.

Also, why would they think that what they're doing is useless? It's just experience. Like Star said, we made 3 TailFinders for Freaky Forester. We did not use mine in SRL, but still I am happy I made the function.

We are now planning a new release and are waiting for Wizzup to get back.

Imo the release cycle of SRL should be way faster, release a (working) update of the public release within 48 hours after an update. It only takes an hour to patch the public SRL to be working. It takes another ten minutes to release it. I had/have exactly the same opinion as most other members when I wasn't a dev, and I still agree with them and think they have a very, very good point.

From: mastaraymond
Well then make the dev SVN for public read.. I think it's time to play "open cards" with SRL.

Agreed.

Anyways, here's a release ready SRL, it's a patched #17/#16. It includes new login, gametab, autocolor (not the record shit). Can be released immediately I think: http://uppit.com/RBG3OF

http://rafb.net/p/MPlZak27.html

Why did you spread this? And why did you say it was your last post as mod?

From: nielsie95
http://rafb.net/p/MPlZak27.html

Why did you spread this? And why did you say it was your last post as mod?

Because he is most likely raged at the way things go around SRL.



@N3ss3s.. I think we should have a new update forum. In this forum we can have a topic for every update. In this topic we would put the stuff that's broken and needs to be fixed and the new stuff we need to make. Then we can easily divide the work, maybe even let SRL Members do some stuff… Would work way more efficient.

From: mastaraymond
@N3ss3s.. I think we should have a new update forum. In this forum we can have a topic for every update. In this topic we would put the stuff that's broken and needs to be fixed and the new stuff we need to make. Then we can easily divide the work, maybe even let SRL Members do some stuff… Would work way more efficient.

Perhaps we could make posts in the SRL Development section listing what we think could be made and what needs to be fixed and asking for SRL Members to help. I mean not only after updates such as the recent one but regularly.

From: nielsie95

So you mean posting the updated functions? That would help, but then people start working on other functions (and so will the devs). That will result in members working on other functions, maybe the same function a developer is working on. If the member posts his function and the developer posts his function a bit later, I think that will make the member feel more useless than when he posts his function and let other members use it (assuming the developers' function is better).

Yes when I was working on SetGraphics and SetAudio, Dusk was also working on a similar thing. He posted before I did but his procedures weren't exactly up to the standard to be incorporated into SRL if you know what I mean. I felt bad telling him that I had already made one and that mine would be added to SRL and I could tell that he was a bit upset. When a dev and an SRL member work on the same thing at the same time with only the dev able to add it to SRL it will be the devs proc that will most-likely be added. Not only because it might be better but because the dev made it. So of course when the member approaches the dev asking for his proc to be added, the dev will have to refuse and the member's time is wasted. This is again a reason why we need to post what is already updated and what needs to be updated.

I also agree with Markus that revisions should be updated more often. I mean the last (proper, sorry Tara :p) revision came out several months ago. In that time lots of bugs have been found and lots of new functions have been added. I know that members would like to see SRL updated more often and so would I. I know as an SRL Member its really frustrating to find a bug, report it then have to wait 2 months before its fixed.

And just for the record my procedure are not that complicated. I know that many if not most members would be able to make a similar one that works just as well.

I agree with Mark, but then again I made a thread by myself of who is willing to help updating SRL.
The result was that only a few were willing to help and they did:)
But it's kind of useless, because the devs already have updated it so I made that clear on the thread.

I thought the update was coming very soon, but I was wrong, I see:)

-Tsn.

Every single idea in this thread is good.

Uhu … uhu … uhu … Starblaster100 and Hobbit I'd appreciate it if you both stopped arguing like this but it seems like you already have.

I do agree that the gap between devs and members is just too big. I think the SRL members should have reading acces to the developers SVN. This way they don't only know what is fixed already, they get the updates faster and they are closer to the developers staff.

Now I'd hope that with that change the communication between devs and members gets better so that SRL member know what needs fixing and what doesn't.

But besides all of this, what is at the moment, besides some respect maybe, the advantage of being a SRL member ? Almost nothing ..

This won't be an overnight change and it would have to be discussed thoroughly under the staff and I will and cannot change anything until Wizzup gets back but I will definitely support this suggestion, what would you say Hobbit ? Sounds nice ? Or is it not what you had in mind ?

i didn't read all the posts.

but the reason the nez rev has to be released for scripters is cus even if we fix our own srl all those juniors members that use our scripts don't have the ability to do that and therefore our scripts arent used anymore.

~RM

Just to confirm I agree with letting SRL Members have viewing access to Dev SVN too. However viewing only no commiting please. :)

Just to confirm I agree with letting SRL Members have viewing access to Dev SVN too. However viewing only no commiting please.

Haha, yea, - viewing is okay.

From: ZephyrsFury
Just to confirm I agree with letting SRL Members have viewing access to Dev SVN too. However viewing only no commiting please. :)

I don't agree with that one, although I want to receive a fas tupdate aswell:p
I also spoke about this with Sum at msn.

I think that every rank should have (and already have:p) it's own privileges.
You can't deny it, another rank means privileges.. and that should be one of them IMO.

I know that may sound crazy:p

-Tsn.

EDIT: But who listens to me, besides I'm a noob:p:spongebob:

I can understand that you are annoyed with this waiting.
And I think the solution to this problem is simple. We construct a simple post everytime an update needs to be done and we post our progress. I do, however, not agree to give people read access to the Devs SVN. I don't see the need for it and people will not necessarily gain anything from having that access.

Allowing SRL Members access to the Dev SVN will let them test, comment and improve on any commits that the devs make. They'll be able what has been added and what has been fixed. Basically it will help us improve SRL through more thorough testing and input from a wider range of people.

Yeah I really think that we should let the community have read-only access. Because then yeah they can test, provide better feedback constantly, etc….would promote a more friendly, community feel to the board.

From: Lorax
I can understand that you are annoyed with this waiting.
And I think the solution to this problem is simple. We construct a simple post everytime an update needs to be done and we post our progress. I do, however, not agree to give people read access to the Devs SVN. I don't see the need for it and people will not necessarily gain anything from having that access.

I agree with Lorax on this issue. I was gonna suggest just making a post in the SRL Members section or even the General for everyone with the 'status' of SRLs updates.

Honestly I don't know why anyone would be complaining unless they are 'unhappy' or immature. I mean ALL SRL members should be able to make their own fixes while SRL is being updated by the Devs and if they can't, well then I don't believe they should be members…

And with people wanting to have their functions/procedures looked at more 'closely' by the Devs are just trying to attract attention and are just whining IMO…there is a reason that threads for update fixes are made in SRL Members, like I had made, so that us SRL Members (having more privileges than a non-member) should be able to get a fixed and working SRL for the time being just so we can auto and test/make scripts

Let the Devs do what they have to do, shit even if it takes a month…I would rather want a GOOD working SRL rather than some decent half ass SRL…

I would though have a SMART released once BenLand gets back from vaction and takes out the reflection side of it…and release that to the public

my .02

Sumilion, I was more meaning what Zypher said.
http://www.srl-forums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=429917&postcount=17

But there has been a lot of good suggestions. Like the dev svn. I think all the SRL Member really want is to be heard. Cause there have been quite a number of people telling me that they feel they are being bluntly ignored.

So I bought it to you, with a simple suggestion, and right away it was shot down. Exactly how the SRL Members feel their suggestions are dealt with.

From: Hobbit
Sumilion, I was more meaning what Zypher said.
http://www.srl-forums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=429917&postcount=17

But there has been a lot of good suggestions. Like the dev svn. I think all the SRL Member really want is to be heard. Cause there have been quite a number of people telling me that they feel they are being bluntly ignored.

So I bought it to you, with a simple suggestion, and right away it was shot down. Exactly how the SRL Members feel their suggestions are dealt with.

it may get shut down but it doesn't get shut down for no reason. It is kinda to the point where people 'think' and that is a BIG "THINK" they could do a better job and suggest the stupidest shit possibly? I am just guessing…

and with what Zeph said is exactly correct. If a Dev and an SRL Member make the same function the odds are the Devs will be in the release, and if they get mad or put down by it they need to re-think it because it may not be 'as good' but they LEARNED from it and personally I could make 1000 functions I see useful and they get shut down, but o well I use them and I learned from them

From: HyperSecret
personally I could make 1000 functions I see useful and they get shut down, but o well I use them and I learned from them

..and that's what matters;)

-Tsn.

I am not saying you have to not shoot down their functions. What I am saying is, acknowledge that they exist and are sometimes actually useful. They try to help make SRL better, but that will soon stop if they are never acknowledged.

From: Hobbit
I am not saying you have to not shoot down their functions. What I am saying is, acknowledge that they exist and are sometimes actually useful. They try to help make SRL better, but that will soon stop if they are never acknowledged.

that's the thing Hobbit, they DO get noticed, ALL active Devs do post to the SRL Members but they just don't think it's 'ENOUGH' because they want more more more, and that's the bottom line. Almost every single thread in the SRL Development section has at least 1 Devs comment. So YES they are being noticed but they want to be noticed more, which just shows they are wanting more attention or aren't mature enough to realize…

I don't think we should give people access to the dev svn… However, more frequent updates might be a proper course of action, it would put the public svn to better use, after all it's built for managing large amounts of updates…

We have millions of Devs now. If someone posts something in the Dev Section, then any Dev happened to be on whenever can look at these functions. If these functions wanna replace another one, check and see which is better. If its not, tell them WHY, such as why a certain findcolor could be faster than another, etc. Anything like that, just let them learn why it's not good. If they wanna add something, and there's something similar, tell them about that. If it's something new, make it a possibility. I don't think people make too many joke threads in the dev section for SRL.

As far as giving read access to current beta SRL, I don't see much harm or gain in it. I think more frequent updates makes more sense, as long as they are stable or marked beta.

As for SRL Members updating functions going unused or unappreciated, that cannot be stopped due to basic math. There will always be more SRL Members wanting to contribute than there are things needing to be updated, so there will always be people 'wasting' their work. I don't think it's wasting though, as it's good scripting practice. If SRL Members can't see this value and just want a pat on the back, they can go get themselves a cookie. It's impossible to make everyone happy and inefficient to try.

Shit.. You should be a… Some psychology guy! =D

From: n3ss3s
Shit.. You should be a… Some psychology guy! =D

Why is it that hard to understand?:p (btw, wasn't meant rude to you boreas;))

-Tsn.

From: Freddy1990
I don't think we should give people access to the dev svn…

any reasons for that?

Last time I checked SRL was open source, maybe if we give them acces to the dev section they can use that.. And then once in a while we can release stable versions.

From: mastaraymond
Last time I checked SRL was open source

not the plugins :(

From: Yakman
not the plugins :(

..says the man who loves the idea behind OPEN SOURCE:p

-Tsn.

From: Yakman
any reasons for that?

Yes. Multiple.
Certain plugins are closed source, and will remain closed source.
There's also the Auto Responder, and several others Developers-only projects.

I don't see why this thread was made, I've suggested this idea so many times… I'm working on it actually… :(
Also, I do not appreciate SRL Members who don't dare to give us their own name when they make an suggestion, tell them that next time they want to suggest something, they better use their own name.

From: Wizzup?
Also, I do not appreciate SRL Members who don't dare to give us their own name when they make an suggestion, tell them that next time they want to suggest something, they better use their own name.

What do you mean?

From: ZephyrsFury
What do you mean?

They care to keep their identity a secret. Why?
Thats basically what I meant.

From: Wizzup?
They care to keep their identity a secret. Why?

Easy, giving public criticism on SRL can give you a LOT of trouble, we all know that.

From: Yakman
any reasons for that?

I wonder why it's always me you jump at…

any reasons for thinking that?

Take a deep breath… We all know he was referring to the plugins, and the closed source ones are pups's plugins. :)

Anyway,
http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32614

From: Markus
Easy, giving public criticism on SRL can give you a LOT of trouble, we all know that.

And Wizzy, it wasn't them who asked to keep their names secret. I chose to keep their names secret, for exactly the reason Markus said.

Hahah. I love it when i come in and now dont have anythign to do with srl as such but still come to give my words of wisdom.

As such i dont think a completely open svn is nice. Just more regular updates etc.

Although the posting of updates is nice. It wont solve all problems. Lets be honest. We dont want srl too bloated. And when someone creates a unique, yet absolutely useless function, It prob isnt going to be recognised or put in srl.

If RS updates. Although people can post fixes. It is more then likely ALREADY in the rev. I dont know what you want us to do. As in go through the numerous threads for fixes and say "nice job, but its not in srl unfortunately".

Releasing a SRL version is not a simple thing to do. It takes some time assembling, it takes time to sum up the revision changes, it takes time releasing a good formatted public note, and it takes the responsibility to do all that.

Not many people have actually ever released a SRL version apart from me en Wizz. So there is one of your problems. Right now Wizz is out of action for some time, so he wont be able to test a lot. Besides our IP is probably monitored and we stopped autoing on that IP after our BIG ban. And as all of you know I am almost midway my "sabbatical".

But the solution is simple and involves three steps:

• 1. We need to assemble a team of devs willing to release SRL. We need active devs that actually contribute to the repository. Devs that auto, not only in theory, but active on the battlefield. Cuts it down to the bare minimum. This Team will create a checklist and a manual for releasing SRL. We will make a seperate forum for that group. Rank?
• 2. SRL needs to be placed inside a new svn that is associated with SCAR as the current public SRL. Keep the devs svn, our beloved svn with its wild history, closed to the audience, please! We only need to mirror it to another svn repository, no big deal! [wild idea]We should even consider giving public acces to this repository behind one commercial-click. This will benefit Dankness.[/wild idea]
• 3. We need to make another forum called Public SVN. Not for rookies! This forum will be populated with say aristocracy of SRL, Members that regularly suggest usefull additions to SRL. This does not apply to the majority of the so-called SRL-fixes that swarm around. Only a few are "worthy" imho. [wild idea] Lets make a new rank SRL aristocrate. Give it to members that contribute to the repository at the Public SVN forum.

But all this takes time ans requires some organisational skills. I say let Hobbit and Starblaster be the masters of this new organisation. :)

So:

Bigger team working on releases.
Public acces to mirror of svn.
New Forums and new Ranks.

Agree?

From: WT-Fakawi
Releasing a SRL version is not a simple thing to do. It takes some time assembling, it takes time to sum up the revision changes, it takes time releasing a good formatted public note, and it takes the responsibility to do all that.

Not many people have actually ever released a SRL version apart from me en Wizz. So there is one of your problems. Right now Wizz is out of action for some time, so he wont be able to test a lot. Besides our IP is probably monitored and we stopped autoing on that IP after our BIG ban. And as all of you know I am almost midway my "sabbatical".

But the solution is simple and involves three steps:

• 1. We need to assemble a team of devs willing to release SRL. We need active devs that actually contribute to the repository. Devs that auto, not only in theory, but active on the battlefield. Cuts it down to the bare minimum. This Team will create a checklist and a manual for releasing SRL. We will make a seperate forum for that group. Rank?
• 2. SRL needs to be placed inside a new svn that is associated with SCAR as the current public SRL. Keep the devs svn, our beloved svn with its wild history, closed to the audience, please! We only need to mirror it to another svn repository, no big deal! [wild idea]We should even consider giving public acces to this repository behind one commercial-click. This will benefit Dankness.[/wild idea]
• 3. We need to make another forum called Public SVN. Not for rookies! This forum will be populated with say aristocracy of SRL, Members that regularly suggest usefull additions to SRL. This does not apply to the majority of the so-called SRL-fixes that swarm around. Only a few are "worthy" imho. [wild idea] Lets make a new rank SRL aristocrate. Give it to members that contribute to the repository at the Public SVN forum.

But all this takes time ans requires some organisational skills. I say let Hobbit and Starblaster be the masters of this new organisation. :)

So:

Bigger team working on releases.
Public acces to mirror of svn.
New Forums and new Ranks.

Agree?

Why not promote these people that would be in the Aristocrate to dev?

From: Bobarkinator
Why not promote these people that would be in the Aristocrate to dev?

Because it wouldn't be the full official SRL. Its like the public SVN we have now.
code.google.com/p/srl-public-development/

They will be like… half devs.

Thats what i got out of the post anyways.

But it sounds like a good plan :)

From: Hobbit
Because it wouldn't be the full official SRL. Its like the public SVN we have now.
code.google.com/p/srl-public-development/

They will be like… half devs.

Thats what i got out of the post anyways.

But it sounds like a good plan :)

Oh ok, now it makes more sense.


Congrats on Admin, when I read Fakawi's post I was thinking about you being an admin :rolleyes:

What about something that looks like this for the user group?
(mainly color and cup)
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u113/HobbitSRL/aristocrate.jpg

Firebug is very useful :)

It's also adding more divisions to the forum…we have quite a few already.

From: Bobarkinator
It's also adding more divisions to the forum…we have quite a few already.

Well it sounds like its meant to be another hidden section like devs section. So it will only add a section for those users.(?)

So Release Masters and Aristocrats?

If this plan is actually put into effect, I suggest that instead of being an invite-only thing like SSRL, members should be able to apply for it. This will, IMO, give more motivation to work in the "elite" section than waiting and hoping to be recognized. "Waiting and hoping to be recognized" could also mean "put everything you have in the public SRL repos and hope you get noticed" to some members, which only leads to a more bloated public SRL.
I don't think I worded that too well, but I hope you get my main points.

So basically this Public SVN forum is the same thing as SRL Development - where people other than devs can post their additons, modifications and fixes for SRL. I don't see the point of it as we already have the same sort of thing. If you're talking about a rank to give to people that contribute to the SRL include itself you we could make a SRL Contributer cup or something. Theres no point in giving them a new forum - if they're good enough upgrade them to SSRL or Dev if they're not up to the standard but help a lot to develop the include give them the cup.

And I'm willing to help release SRL Revisions - like make a list of whats changed, etc.

From: ZephyrsFury
So basically this Public SVN forum is the same thing as SRL Development - where people other than devs can post their additons, modifications and fixes for SRL. I don't see the point of it as we already have the same sort of thing. If you're talking about a rank to give to people that contribute to the SRL include itself you we could make a SRL Contributer cup or something. Theres no point in giving them a new forum - if they're good enough upgrade them to SSRL or Dev if they're not up to the standard but help a lot to develop the include give them the cup.

And I'm willing to help release SRL Revisions - like make a list of whats changed, etc.

No, only devs will be able to add to the SVN. Remember, there can only be one SRL, that meaning one svn the devs work from. All that needs to be done is that last revision is mirrored someplace else. Google seems fine but it can be downloaded directly from SCAR of course. Or we could place it here at SRL behind one commercial click.

The public will have read-only acces to the public svn.

Aristocrates, or whatever we will call them, are people that make useful posts in the svn forum. They are much the same as useful posters, so a manual handed down rank, like all ranks are. I like the hat btw :)

I dont have anything against yet another rank. We are with 50k, logically we need a lot of groups to keep the place alive.

I'm confused now, could someone make a 'raw theory' that just tells the plane plan?

I'm sick btw, I won't be on as much for few days, today was the first day of my life my stomach hurt from hunger, I forgot to eat like umm… The opposite of breakfast, so the time between my eatings was about 16 hours :eek:

From: n3ss3s
I'm confused now, could someone make a 'raw theory' that just tells the plane plan?

I'm sick btw, I won't be on as much for few days, today was the first day of my life my stomach hurt from hunger, I forgot to eat like umm… The opposite of breakfast, so the time between my eatings was about 16 hours :eek:

look at fawki's post, it covers most of it:)

Btw you mean dinner?:p

-Tsn.

Btw you mean dinner?

No, like when you eat breakfast, lunch, dinner and then some bread or so before going to sleep…

From: n3ss3s
No, like when you eat breakfast, lunch, dinner and then some bread or so before going to sleep…

Not here :p In Netherlands/Belgium we only eat breakfast, lunch and dinner and a cup of coffee :p

From: Markus
Not here :p In Netherlands/Belgium we only eat breakfast, lunch and dinner and a cup of coffee :p

You should, you'll sleep like a log, unless you get diarrhea :(

Yeh I pretty much always eat something before I go to bed :p

but please… stay on topic lol.

@WT, I don't think Starblaster will be doing much reorganizing.

From: Sumilion
@WT, I don't think Starblaster will be doing much reorganizing.

Well I'm almost finished with my first run through of Tutorial Island… Yes I am doing a second one. After that I can put full attention on to this.

So there's gonna be 2 new cups and read-only public svn, correct?

From: Smartzkid
So there's gonna be 2 new cups and read-only public svn, correct?

Two?
Fawk just wants more people willing to compile the SRL Revs for releasing other then mainly Wizzup? And a new rank or basically Junior Devs.

I don't like the idea of Junior Devs, the leap from SSRL to Developer is good at the moment in my opinion. People who want to dev become good scripters enough to become devs.

imho, this is what needs to be done.

1. Make sure there are enough people willing to help release SRL. They will get their own lil' forum. (rank?) Obviously only devs will be able to apply, since they are the only ones with direct access to the repository. Wait for the team to be assembled. Wait for rules and manuals to be written.
2. Create a public (or junior) forum labelled: SRL public svn, or SRL Beta or whatever. Subforums: rules, howto, announcements, revision history, additions, suggestions, bugs, etc.
3. Watch the activity and rank those users, juniors to seniors that make at least three useful additions that can be copied-pasted more or less directly into the repository. Devs are excluded from this rank (including nielsie ;))
4. Make SRL downloadable behind one commercial click. I think that could prevent any further downtime for SRL in the future….but it's a tricky solution that comes last in the list of things to do.

Already made a thread in dev-section.

What I'm missing is so is there coming a new rank that can do 'official dev commits' or are we devs going to remain the devs?

From: n3ss3s
What I'm missing is so is there coming a new rank that can do 'official dev commits' or are we devs going to remain the devs?

Well there will just be a team of "Senior Devs" I guess you could call them. They would have a higher forums, like SSRL over SRL. They would handle putting together SRL and making it ok for a release. This way it is more then just Wizzup? doing it and we can get refs out faster (?). I think that is was Faw'k is trying to say.

From: WT-Fakawi

• Create a public (or junior) forum labelled: SRL public svn, or SRL Beta or whatever. Subforums: rules, howto, announcements, revision history, additions, suggestions, bugs, etc.
• Watch the activity and rank those users, juniors to seniors that make at least three useful additions that can be copied-pasted more or less directly into the repository. Devs are excluded from this rank (including nielsie ;))

So does the new rank get their own forums? Or just use the SRL Public SVN section?
I am still a bit foggy on this part. And if they don't have their own section, what is the point of them?

Are Senior Devs > Normal Devs? :(

http://www.srl-forums.com/forum/srl-public-svn-f303.html

Here is SRL Public SVN forum

Only SSRL+ can view it for now
Any additions, suggestions or content for it now?

A, eager youngster, always concerned with achieving more. No, not Seniors, but more like SRL Release Team. It is a responsible job, just like adding functions to the svn, making sure everything works the way it should.

Lets hope we have devs that apply :)

From: WT-Fakawi
A, eager youngster, always concerned with achieving more.

So the rank is junior member - senior member?
And it is just a status rank not any forums or anything?
And it involves a cup?
Does the rank involve a title change?

Why not make a new section? That would make it a bit more "clean".

I was thinking that. But then the people complaining "The forums are too long"

This was kind of a happy medium :)

From: Hobbit
So the rank is junior member - senior member?
And it is just a status rank not any forums or anything?
And it involves a cup?
Does the rank involve a title change?

C'mon. I think I have been clear on this subject.

What do you think…?
http://www.srl-forums.com/forum/member.php?u=1350

I couldn't get it to override the SRL Junior Member title without making it change username color. So either make two seperate versions of the rank and make one use Junior name color and one Member, only difference will be viewable by admins in admincp. Or admins will have to set user title manually.

I've started population the forums.
Please read the rules sticky and tell me if there is anything you think that should be added and give suggestions of more things to be added before we make public.

I like it. Now all we need is a SRL Release team. So far….. no one has applied :(

Ok I apply. I still auto a bit you know :)

I would like to do this. I like how this forum is getting more community involved :)

I am in too. I do wonder how we are going to give the rest access to the public SvN.
Dankness is not around to give any privileges. And we can't all start using Boreas' account. ;)

And we can't all start using Boreas' account.

We could re-name it to Public and send Boreas a pm - "Sorry Boreas, you have been removed."

Good! Three in. Will that do? I think we will need one or two more. Anyone? The team needs to be split up. We need Thread writer(s), Updater(s), Publisher(s) and a Leader. Since Wizz applied, he'd be the leader me thinks. So lets say one or two threadwriters, one or two updaters and one or two publishers. Try to release a version once a week (weekend?) or at most 48 hours after an update.

Good thing about SRL in its current state is, it doesnt need as much svn work as it used to, since it is very stable and well written. Me = happy.

Threadwriter :)

I am up to help. I don't know if this is something that Devs can only apply for, but I don't think I have the time to really 'develop' any sufficient amounts of code to help develop but I could help with publishing a release for the person that is going to release it.

or

if need be I think I can test… ;)

From: Markus
Threadwriter :)

Easy job :p

I'll go with updater.

What would the difference between Thread Writer and Publisher be?

Oh ya, I forgot to ask Fakawi to include a description of each job.

Threadwriter: Prime concern is to fill in the audience with the neccesary details about the new svn. So, writing a thread every time a new release is planned. He is also responsible for the versioning of the project.
Publisher: Dev with prime concern of releasing a properly formatted svn. So no private stuff in there, no closed source, no autoresponders etc. It's not a difficult job, but a very responsible one.
Updaters: Those devs working on updating the svn with the new code provided by the Aristocrates.

optional:

We also need plenty of testers. This is where SSRL comes in. SSRL's are the elite of SRL. they are here to help and modify and if neccesary correct. IMHO SSRL should have acces to this svn at all times. Also they could initiate and coordinate "special" projects. (<- look into SRL's history, lots of semi finished specials!)


Writing a properly formatted thread takes apporx. 30 mins or so. Publishing a proper (tested) svn takes 30 mins too, Updating takes a lot more time, so my guess is we need more Updaters (devs).

So SSRL = Testers/Editors?

Dibs on being tester/editor :p

I didn't sign up for anything but I'll still propably once in a while do updates from the SRL Development…

Can anybody explain me what the SRL Aristocrate rank stands for :) So I can announce it here?

This topic by Hobbit should sum it up pretty well.

From: WT-Fakawi
Can anybody explain me what the SRL Aristocrate rank stands for :) So I can announce it here?

It was the Rank that you told me to make…. The project you made me and Star work on together to put aside our disagreements. But I ended up doing it all…

a·ris·to·crat audio (-rst-krt, rs-) KEY

NOUN:

1. A member of a ruling class or of the nobility.
2. A person having the tastes, manners, or other characteristics of the aristocracy: a natural aristocrat who insists on the best accommodations.
3. A person who advocates government by an aristocracy.
4. One considered the best of its kind: the aristocrat of cars.


I think that this should be the nobel opinions, kinda exactly like what the old timer rank says.

I don't think the old timer rank should say 'these people are wisest', maybe just the ones who have stuck with srl through time, whether they are very wise or not, who knows.

I agree with ejjman - "their opinions are decisive" might be a bit too much praise for the normal users and even some of the SRL Members who were given the title…could cause inflated heads :)

i think we shouldnt use the aristocrat cup, because it suggests elitism and a closed group.

it gives the idea that everyone has their own place and they should stay in it.


this is not the kind of feeling we should promote at SRL.
I'd like the lowlyest, newist scripter to look at the devs and admins, and say "i can be that one day"

SRL aristocrat says to them, "oh well, im stuck with being a junour member because my father wasnt an aristocrat"

From: Yakman
i think we shouldnt use the aristocrat cup, because it suggests elitism and a closed group.

it gives the idea that everyone has their own place and they should stay in it.


this is not the kind of feeling we should promote at SRL.
I'd like the lowlyest, newist scripter to look at the devs and admins, and say "i can be that one day"

SRL aristocrat says to them, "oh well, im stuck with being a junour member because my father wasnt an aristocrat"

TBH I was kinda intimidated by just the division of the gears and a different colored name. But on the other hand it didn't stop me from trying.

I like the cup (the image in itself) :p It shows class.

And i think that at a first view it might represent a good thing to us. The cup is given to those interested in the public SVN forum. Which is basically those who want to script for the include.

But…what about the other people? As yakman and ejjman said, Aristocracy is a higher class in society, which sort of gives the image that we value mostly scripters. And on top of that, the ones who focus on the include.

This might be true to some extent of course; SRL wouldn't exist without it's Dev's.

But what about the people who just make scripts for a certain skill in RS? SRL wouldn't exist without those either, SRL was made to make it easier and more efficient to create those scripts(correct me if i'm wrong).

And the people who test our scripts? Believe it or not, they are an important part of the community. Why would we release our scripts otherwise?

So by making these people Aristocrats we are casting a shadow over other parts of the community which are just as important. They are dependent on each other, they need each other to be able to exist.

I definitely think a cup should be placed there. It's sort of a "way" into dev's because you are doing a bit the work of a dev by making new functions or updating old ones for the include.

Just not "aristocrat". Remember that idea of semi-dev tha floatted around for a while? Where it ws even considered making a new rank, with their own forums to separate the semi-devs from the rest of the SRL Members?

well, if that semi-dev group were not to be a secret one such as ssrl, what kind of cup would be awarded?

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
But what about the people who just make scripts for a certain skill in RS?

Scripters Cup / Masters Cup

From: Rasta Magician
And the people who test our scripts?

Testers Cup


And scripting is the point of this forum. Why reward people for doing a mediocre task that is the entire basis of the forums. The whole point of the cups are to give recognition to those who excel.

We aren't going to give a scripting cup to someone who makes this…

program Hello;
begin
  Writeln('Hello World');
end.

I didn't really express myself right…

1. Royal Family
2. Nobles
3. Aristocrats
4. Commoners
5. Slaves / Criminals

it goes against many things this forum does. SRL Members get in through a process of Democracy; Admins always have the last say, they usually just give whatever the poll says except if the script is actually quite good/bad or the persons attitude is not reflected in the poll.

Fawki / Dankness don't hold the whole power; they're not the "king" around here. They could be. But they do share out the power. Aristocracy would suggest the opposite.

~RM

You are reading WAY too much into the name.

It is a simple title that sounds cool.


Its just like the "Valued Voter" cup… Its not that those peoples votes are worth more than another persons. They are just good at giving USEFUL feed back on a consistent basis.

From: Hobbit
You are reading WAY too much into the name.

It is a simple title that sounds cool.


Its just like the "Valued Voter" cup… Its not that those peoples votes are worth more than another persons. They are just good at giving USEFUL feed back on a consistent basis.

Hah, correct.
My definition doesn't give ranks, just that opinions are valued well. Someone with good advice, good word, all around person should have. It'll most likely be a developer as well.

1. A member of a ruling class or of the nobility.

^:P

you're right hobbit, i might be. Late night mood swings / thoughts :p

sorry if i might've been a pain in the ass :p

~RM

From: Rasta Magician
^:P

you're right hobbit, i might be. Late night mood swings / thoughts :p

sorry if i might've been a pain in the ass :p

~RM

Oh


Bwahaaha.
:rolleyes:
I knew that….

From: Hobbit
You are reading WAY too much into the name.

It is a simple title that sounds cool.


Its just like the "Valued Voter" cup… Its not that those peoples votes are worth more than another persons. They are just good at giving USEFUL feed back on a consistent basis.

:) Good words.