SRL Archive - Senior News and General

From: Wizzup?
Hey,

I've been thinking about the entire idea of making SRL-Appliances (alot) tougher… It doesn't seem like a very good idea to me after all, for it may discourage many scripters. People leaving because scripting it too though is the last thing we want.
I still think a new rank might help us to keep both the more skilled SRL Members , aswell as the less skilled / learning SRL Member contended.

~Wizz

I think it might be cool if the new rank gave access to a small extra forum, especially for this rank and up. (It may not be for SSRL; since not all SSRL would get the rank)
It would more be a forum for scripters. SSRL is filled with great minds and people who help deciding about what happens in SRL, but quite some aren't really active.

What do you guys think?

It sounds like a great idea to me, since we were kind of discussing it. I think it would encourage SRL-Members to improve and it would "hopefully" produce some higher-level functions / scripts since those who are in that group would all be exceptional scripters.

I think if this were to happen we really need to discuss the actual perquisites / requirements for it. Is it going to be like SSRL where it's invite only, or is it going to be an Apply / Vote system?

Few questions
1. This is like something to seperate the "noob" SRL Members from the talented ones, but who aren't SSRL?
2. Will this be invite-only, or with an application?
3. Will this be hidden like SSRL, or more open like some cup/rank/whatever?

I vote yes and I vote that it is something automated. Activity / post count / whatever you can think of to seperate the men from the boys.

I think it should be open, because then it would motivate people to become better scripters. If it was "secret" then people wouldn't know that if they were amazing scripters they would be able to get in a new section of the forum.

EDIT: Sumilion I don't think something like this could be automated… at least I don't think that would be a very good idea.

I thought admins were already saying their were to many groups?

Also we could always make this section more scripting oriented couldn't we?

From: Markus
Few questions
1. This is like something to seperate the "noob" SRL Members from the talented ones, but who aren't SSRL?
2. Will this be invite-only, or with an application?
3. Will this be hidden like SSRL, or more open like some cup/rank/whatever?

1. It should be more a scripting section, SSRL isn't really about scripting.
2. I don't think it should be application, rather an invitation.
3. Nope. Not hidden. An open cup and rank.

I like the idea, but since the people there may not be as mature (else they'd be in SSRL?), will they be able to vote others in, or would new appliances be SSRL-voted? If they could vote on others, it'd just be another SRL Members, and would be useless. If it was SSRL-voted, then yes, I think it would be a great addition. Mini-Developer :p

From: Smartzkid
I like the idea, but since the people there may not be as mature (else they'd be in SSRL?), will they be able to vote others in, or would new appliances be SSRL-voted? If they could vote on others, it'd just be another SRL Members, and would be useless. If it was SSRL-voted, then yes, I think it would be a great addition. Mini-Developer :p

I don't think there would be much of a maturity issue. As far as I've seen, SRL member applications rarely get out of hand. I think they only time they do/could is if someone like, say SolarWind was applying, whom a lot of people dislike. I don't THINK we have anyone like that in members right now, nor will we anytime soon, so it should be fine.

Although I agree with the rest of what you said. It would kinda be more like a second SRL members if people could apply and were voted on by the "Mini-Devs" (:p)

The general idea of it sounds great.

From: Smartzkid
Mini-Developer

From: bullzeye95
"Mini-Devs"

Didn't I say something similar to that Wizzup? :p Ya, I think the "Pro Scripters" (We need an official name) should either be admin / mod / Dev appointed or polled in SSRL like we do cups.

My vote is Yes.
And I was thinking about "SRL Certified Scripter" or something like that for the name.

From: Wizzup?
It should be more a scripting section

I don't really get the point of this. From what I understand you want it to be a group for a sort of lower-level dev. Isn't this what the SRL Development section in the members forum for - contributing functions/bugfixes, etc to SRL. If they're experienced scripters they can help develop SRL through the SRL Members group then if they're really good enough they can become devs.

Mini-Developer

Hey come on, we are the Mini Devs >=[

:p


I agree too, because there are many good scripters in the members section, and then this… other people.

Also agree with it not being hidden.

People like Timothegreat for example would get in there, by the understanding I've gotten now?

noooooooooooooo the last thing we need is another member group to divide users acces…trust me on this one wizzup

From: n3ss3s
Hey come on, we are the Mini Devs >=[

:p


I agree too, because there are many good scripters in the members section, and then this… other people.

Also agree with it not being hidden.

People like Timothegreat for example would get in there, by the understanding I've gotten now?

Just because you are small doesn't mean your a mini dev :p.

I'm with Zephyrs and The Claw on this one.

Would this group have more access or just a status?

What if we'd just make a new "Status" / Rank, so that the "SRL Member" of the people in that group would be "Approved Scripter" or something like that (which ofcourse also the SSRLs would have :p) ?

I am sure the people who script a lot or have a couple hit scripts would like it a lot, even if there wouldn't come any "benefits", - what are there more to give to a new rank? So yea, maybe just a "status"?

I can't decide, all the opinions you guys post have some thruth:)

But it'd be overall better to just make the member graduating better imho.

I mean, for example, Nauman.. it's a nice guy, but you have to admit, he isn't good at scripting at all.
I even don't understand why he's an SRL member:) He even can't handle cases -_-.

You see what I mean? Some better graduating wouldn't be bad at all, and I know that I'm not the only one who's thinking like that:p

-Tsn.

EDIT:

From: n3ss3s
Would this group have more access or just a status?

What if we'd just make a new "Status" / Rank, so that the "SRL Member" of the people in that group would be "Approved Scripter" or something like that (which ofcourse also the SSRLs would have :p) ?

I am sure the people who script a lot or have a couple hit scripts would like it a lot, even if there wouldn't come any "benefits", - what are there more to give to a new rank? So yea, maybe just a "status"?

It's not because you're an SSRL Member, that you'd automaticaly get that 'status'. Not all SSRL Members are part of the group, because they are good in scripting…

Also, it's not because you've got a script that's on the top 10 SRL Stats, that you'd be automaticaly allowed in this group.
Like Hy's FightCaver, that script is in the highscores, but the techinque etc isn't that well..

I personally don't like the idea as well.

I'm with Star and nielsie and them on this one.

I think maybe in the future we will need one. But for now, I think the ratio between junior and registered : SRL Members is just too low to put in another group.

You all really haven't said why you don't want this new group. Claw just says that we don't need another group and you all just follow suit. Why? I'd rather be presented with some substantial info rather than just a small comment.

From: ZephyrsFury
I don't really get the point of this. From what I understand you want it to be a group for a sort of lower-level dev. Isn't this what the SRL Development section in the members forum for - contributing functions/bugfixes, etc to SRL. If they're experienced scripters they can help develop SRL through the SRL Members group then if they're really good enough they can become devs.

The section was intended for the masses to be able to contribute useful things they've found not to develop higher level functions… more of a grunt work area if you ask me.

As far as being a good enough scripter to be a dev rather than this…. well if you agree with that then SSRL shouldn't exist, I mean, if we're trusted enough to help moderate, why aren't we just mods?

I think they already have all the tools they need. What will a new cup or rank change about their scripting?

From: Hobbit
But for now, I think the ratio between junior and registered : SRL Members is just too low to put in another group.

Maybe it will work if we make getting into SRL Members simpler but again what's the point. Then the people who are still good scripters but not good enough for this group will feel cheated.

From: Special Ed
The section was intended for the masses to be able to contribute useful things they've found not to develop higher level functions… more of a grunt work area if you ask me.

And thats what I thought the SRL Development forum was for.

From: Hobbit
Maybe it will work if we make getting into SRL Members simpler but again what's the point. Then the people who are still good scripters but not good enough for this group will feel cheated.

IMO the standards for SRL Member are already too low. I've seen SRL Mems asking how to declare their players and how to solve simple type mismatch errors. I mean isn't that one of the requirements in the first place. Also if someone is a good scripter they'll get the scripters cup or something. No need for a new rank.

And thats what I thought the SRL Development forum was for.

Narr, there the functions have to be safe and reason to exist =(

:p

IMO the standards for SRL Member are already too low. I've seen SRL Mems asking how to declare their players and how to solve simple type mismatch errors. I mean isn't that one of the requirements in the first place. Also if someone is a good scripter they'll get the scripters cup or something. No need for a new rank.

But the status would tell your scripter status straigth on, registered users and many SRL Junior Members may confuse it to be an avatar or just some random cat from the street :rolleyes:


I agree with the too low membership standards, I think that the requirements are good, but they need to be fulfilled better!

People think that if requirements say failsafes you put If Not LoggedIn Then Exit to some random place and thats it, and there is a crapload of like

RadialRoadWalk(..)
Wait(..)
RadialRoadWalk(..)
Wait(..)
RadialRoadWalk(..)
Wait(..)
FindNormalRandoms
Wait(..)


.

Can you imagine that is someone's idea about walking? Simon Cowell would say raping the walking.


They have no idea they could make

a) A new record type with the variables for radials, radiuses and colors, then make a function that creates a new… TRadial? like CreateRadial(): TRadial, and then make an array of those an walk in a freaking loop.

b) T2DIntArray with the radials etc.

c) Consider using DDTM =D


I've heard all the "imagine yourself in the position of the applicant being judged", as there has been a few threads about the SRL Members requirements, but the truth is there is no use for that mercy there.

They have a script that is barely the mercy par, and then they get into members, but they haven't learned too much after that.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, but in my opinion the judgement should be more strict.

From: Special Ed
I'd rather be presented with some substantial info rather than just a small comment.

I think that section is going to be or like SSRL (you post a script/snippet and people don't test it), or maybe like SRL members. When that second happens, I think people will start posting their scripts rather in the new section than the older SRL member section. Causing that section to die because the good scripters take their scripts away. I don't really see the point. Cause if they do post it in members, what's the point of the new section? Help developing SRL? Why can't that happen in the SRL Development section?

If you want to Develop SRL, apply for Developer. If you want to post a script, do it in ssrl/members/juniors/ffa/do not post at all.

From: Special Ed
Claw just says that we don't need another group and you all just follow suit. Why?

noooooooooooooo the last thing we need is another member group to divide users acces…trust me on this one wizzup

The Claw stated that he doesn't want another user group to divide user access. I think he meant that things will get more complicated (more options/more trouble). If that's what he meant, I agree with him.

yep niels got it in 1, sorry i would explain it myself but its the weekend ya know….

Alright, Thanks for clarifying that's just my biggest pet peeve, is when people take a side without any basis.

So from what I gathered you don't want this new section because…

• Will divide the user access because it will make it more complicated.
• The SRL Members section will die because scripters will only post scripts in the new section.
• SRL Development Section = "This New Group"

I guess I can see what you're saying although, what I was hoping for is a section that will be viewable to those with the scripters cup / master cup. The reason I say this new section is a good idea, is that will all the (Potentially) good ideas and techniques that these people have, if they are put together those idea are more likely to get passed around, evaluated, changed, improved, and implemented better than if these people are spread out around the forum. People need a common ground.

I can understand what you mean by the SRL-Members section dying, IMHO it is dying already… Some of the newcomers are just plain poor scripters yet they still get in. I'm trying to slowly increase the difficulty of getting in, although you can't do too much with just 1 person.

The SRL Development Section is for developing SRL, true. The main point of this new section (or at least what I though) was to get together some of the better scripting minds to develop new, higher level functions, although I guess that what the Developers are doing. In the same boat though, they would be good testers if the Developers would want to put their new functions in there, because those people would be more likely to understand the code and to have ideas as to how to improve / fix those procedures / functions.

As far as SRL-Members having to low of a quota I think you're 100% correct. Maybe we SSRL+ people should vote on applications for like 2 weeks or so (or more, IDK how many of you read applications) and increase the difficulty of getting into SRL. We have the amount of people to do it, and I'm sure we have the charisma to prove our points as to why we're grading harsher. I'm pretty sure we could change it if we all worked together.

From: nielsie95
I think that section is going to be or like SSRL (you post a script/snippet and people don't test it), or maybe like SRL members. When that second happens, I think people will start posting their scripts rather in the new section than the older SRL member section. Causing that section to die because the good scripters take their scripts away. I don't really see the point. Cause if they do post it in members, what's the point of the new section? Help developing SRL? Why can't that happen in the SRL Development section?

If you want to Develop SRL, apply for Developer. If you want to post a script, do it in ssrl/members/juniors/ffa/do not post at all.


The Claw stated that he doesn't want another user group to divide user access. I think he meant that things will get more complicated (more options/more trouble). If that's what he meant, I agree with him.

First of all, I talked to The Claw about this and he now supports this idea…
I'm happy you agree with him. ;)

Do you really beleive the SRL-Members section will just 'die' like that, because some it will hold less scripts?
Tell me, how much working scripts does the SRL-Members section currently hold? 10 at the very most!
Is the SRL-Members section dead? I don't think so… It's more alive than ever.
The SRL Members section however, is in my eyes more a place to 'chill' for most of the SRL-Members. The actual scriping part, both questions and answers are all posted and discussed in the Junior Section.
I am hundred percent confident people will not post their scripts in the new section, 98% of all the scripts posted are posted in the Junior Members Section.

What would be the use of this rank? Do I even have to explain that…?
The rank is meant to stimulate people to improve on their scripting abilities, increasing the interest and activity on SRL, providing a new goal for SRL-Members and so on. Everyone likes a new cup or title, especially when it is a visible cup or title! SSRL-Members is something SRL-Members cannot really work towards, since it is invite only.

Which brings me to a small point, I don't see why SSRL-Members don't just get a visible title or cup. I don't see why SSRL has to be kept a secret, I never understood why it was a secret rank at all. If SSRL wasn't a secret, we might have no need for this new rank.

SRL Members: Primairy 289 + Secondairy 39

That's quite alot. How many of these are Active? And do all these guys deserve SRL-Members?

I have lately seen so many SRL-Members asking alot of noob questions.
Do you really beleive the scripters who would get this new rank will only post their scripts in that section?

I totally agree with Special Ed. I saddens me that the higher ranked users on this forum only post 'I do agree' or 'I do not agree' whilst the SSRL Members actually base their opinion on arguments.

Which brings me to a small point, I don't see why SSRL-Members don't just get a visible title or cup. I don't see why SSRL has to be kept a secret, I never understood why it was a secret rank at all. If SSRL wasn't a secret, we might have no need for this new rank.

I agree.


Behold - HTML SKILLS:




But IMO it should remain invite only, people can't apply for it and copy their attitude to scar tags, if you know what I mean.

I see what Wizz's intentions are.

I agree that SRL Mems need something to try to achieve - something that they can set as a goal - a reasonable goal not just some secret rank or a cup. Right now they have nothing. You become SRL Mem and you don't have any… nothing to try and achieve. I mean you can try to become a dev or SSRL but not many people will actually make it. I mean how many devs are there and compare that to the number of SRL Mems.

So what I'm trying to say is that I support Wizzup's attitude towards this but I do not suppose creating a new rank. I agree with Wizz and n3ss, SSRL should become 'public' as such. Make it visible. Make it real. Make it something that someone can actually strive for and hopefully achieve.

From: Wizzup?
First of all, I talked to The Claw about this and he now supports this idea…
I'm happy you agree with him. ;)

From: Nielsie95

If that's what he meant, I agree with him.

;)

From: Wizzup?

Is the SRL-Members section dead? I don't think so… It's more alive than ever.
The SRL Members section however, is in my eyes more a place to 'chill' for most of the SRL-Members. The actual scriping part, both questions and answers are all posted and discussed in the Junior Section. I am hundred percent confident people will not post their scripts in the new section, 98% of all the scripts posted are posted in the Junior Members Section.

So you are saying the members section is being spammed, because all the actual work happens in the juniors section?

People post their scripts in juniors or ffa to get feedback, feedback they don't get in the members section. I'm sure there will be scripts posted in this new section (take a look at ssrl) and from what I read, that section will have more active members than ssrl. Yes, I think members will get even less feedback if half of the members can find "better" scripts.

From: Wizzup?

What would be the use of this rank? Do I even have to explain that…?
The rank is meant to stimulate people to improve on their scripting abilities, increasing the interest and activity on SRL, providing a new goal for SRL-Members and so on. Everyone likes a new cup or title, especially when it is a visible cup or title! SSRL-Members is something SRL-Members cannot really work towards, since it is invite only.

SRL Members: Primairy 289 + Secondairy 39

That's quite alot. How many of these are Active? And do all these guys deserve SRL-Members?

I have lately seen so many SRL-Members asking alot of noob questions.
Do you really beleive the scripters who would get this new rank will only post their scripts in that section?

I think a cup is enough to stimulate. I also think that all active SRL members deserve their rank. It proves they're active and willing to learn. I hope we all remember n3ss3s in his old days (no offense)… I think even hermpie is learning bit by bit. They have the attitude that brings them somewhere (at least n3ss3s has :p). Do we really need a new usergroup for the more experienced people so that they are separated from the "noobmembers"? I think it's better to keep them mixed, so they can learn from eachother.

From: Special Ed
In the same boat though, they would be good testers if the Developers would want to put their new functions in there, because those people would be more likely to understand the code and to have ideas as to how to improve / fix those procedures / functions.

Why not do that in the members section so the people who can, can improve / fix / understand, and the people who don't can learn. If we keep all the advanced functions away from them they will never learn (or atleast slower).
I also learned about shl and shr when I saw them in a function from Lorax.

I think it's better to keep them mixed (maybe hand out some new cups), but not separate. If they really want to, they can work themselves in SSRL (and again n3ss3s is a great example).

I do agree with the publicity of SSRL though (new titel / color maybe).

:p No offense taken.

I do agree with the publicity of SSRL though (new titel / color maybe).

:)

If Benland where to post some of the things he's written 90% + of the SRL-Members would look at it and leave because they didn't understand WTF was going on. Granted there is that 10% that do want to learn, but IMO that's what tutorials are for. Yes talking to someone is a better way to learn, but talking with someone over ventrilo / msn / irc is definitely the better way to communicate in this situation since it's a lot faster. No one really asks what [Insert Complex Function Here] does on the forum, (1) because they don't want to sound stupid because they don't understand it, and (2) because a lot of members don't even care to learn it.

I'm actually going to start publishing a "Tutorial" of sorts where I dissect scripts and explain how / why certain things are done in them. So then people can learn new techniques and how to apply them, and the reasons behind doing certain things and not others. This is the kind of thing that needs to be done, if more people commented their scripts then it would be easier for people to learn… but it takes a lot of time so most people don't.

So what I'm reading as the underlying cause of this new group is motivation?

Do scripters cups or masters cups not give enough motivation? I think they give lots of motivation personally.

As for SSRL going public, I am indifferent. Public: Yay life. Private: Yay life.

From: Bobarkinator
So what I'm reading as the underlying cause of this new group is motivation?

Do scripters cups or masters cups not give enough motivation? I think they give lots of motivation personally.

As for SSRL going public, I am indifferent. Public: Yay life. Private: Yay life.

Partially…

As far as the cups go, I was hoping that this new section would increase the "value" of those cups and make people strive to obtain them. I haven't really seen many people working towards those cups lately (including myself… but I'm getting back into it).

SSRL Public / Private? It doesn't bother me either way, not many know I'm SSRL anyway. I'm good at keeping secrets.

Well how about we just make SSRL public then, and make it more scripting orientated? Remember, it's the people who make the sections not the section itself. If someone makes SSRL more scripting orientated, it will become more scripting orientated: It's as simple as that.

I also don't think we need to create more sections. Why add more rungs to the ladder? Others have climbed it successfully, so what's stopping anyone else?

Make the SSRL rung visible, and it will act as a nice bridge between SRL and Devs.

Thats my opinion.

Imagine what would happen if the SSRL list goes public: many people will pester the SSRL's to leak, to invite them, and we'll get a lot of other annoying noobs shitting at us. You want to have like 15 people saying "poll me pl0x?" via PM/IM? Well I rather don't.
SSRL is here to have a leak-free environment, which is for 95% accomplished. If you don't know who is SSRL, you don't know who to ask for the stuff, and so it decreases the leakage. Really, it's very easy to accidentally leak when asked about it.
Oh, and the afterglow avatars aren't really that discrete ;)

From: Markus
Imagine what would happen if the SSRL list goes public: many people will pester the SSRL's to leak, to invite them, and we'll get a lot of other annoying noobs shitting at us. You want to have like 15 people saying "poll me pl0x?" via PM/IM? Well I rather don't.
SSRL is here to have a leak-free environment, which is for 95% accomplished. If you don't know who is SSRL, you don't know who to ask for the stuff, and so it decreases the leakage. Really, it's very easy to accidentally leak when asked about it.
Oh, and the afterglow avatars aren't really that discrete ;)

I think we are all mature enough to withstand the pestering about leaking. Also, people don't know what is in the SSRL section. They don't know anything about the section. Plus, we all have the power to infract, so people who ask for leak=infract.

Thought about it some more, and I've changed my vote to no. SRL members started out as the 'elite', but after time, they became 'diluted' by a bunch of people who aren't very good at scripting. I say demote members. Whether to randomly demote them, or to demote them every x months, I don't know, but it seems to be the best way to keep the SRL Members group from going (even more so) to an unknowledgeable mass leechers.

http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23651

Well isn't that amazing. Some people's opinions apparently change when somebody more important posts a suggestion :)


Anyways, I'm kind of with it and I'm kind of against it.

1. SRL members is full of noobs and everything single thing in it has and is being leaked.

2. SSRL + right now are the only groups that can be trusted with anything in any way at all.

3. I think the standards for SRL members needs to be risen, but it's too late to do that now because so many have gotten in that would be under those new standards. I'm kind of leaning towards we killing the SRL members section, and just making the people in SRL members section need to re-apply to get into a new members section.

So basically I think that a cleaning is needed for the SRL group, but we don't need a new group. But since it would take forever to clean the SRL group and then set a new standard for applying, we should just make a new group with the new standards and make SRL members less hard to get into, or remove it completely.

So I say we either (pretty much) make a re-apply for members, but with higher standards, the way I said above, or we don't make the new group at all and make SSRL not secret.

But it'd kind of be dumb to keep SSRL secret, the SSRL members who aren't good at scripting/don't script anymore can't get into the new group, and then the people who aren't good enough to get into SSRL yet get to have a title above us while we still look like ordinary SRL members.


Anyways, that's my scattered thoughts.

~JAD

Wow, are you suggesting basically deleting SRL members and reconstructing it? That would be such a huge task

From: Bobarkinator
Wow, are you suggesting basically deleting SRL members and reconstructing it? That would be such a huge task

That's pretty much what was suggested by Wizzup?. Make a group with higher standards. I'm just saying that the SRL group should then slowly vanish (in inactivy/scripts) or just have lower standards then now or something along those lines.

From: Smartzkid
Thought about it some more, and I've changed my vote to no. SRL members started out as the 'elite', but after time, they became 'diluted' by a bunch of people who aren't very good at scripting. I say demote members. Whether to randomly demote them, or to demote them every x months, I don't know, but it seems to be the best way to keep the SRL Members group from going (even more so) to an unknowledgeable mass leechers.

I've been thinking that almost exact same thing, but whenever I brought it up or someone did people would always say no. It would upset too many people.

I agree the SRL-Members section needs a reform, even though I haven't scripted in a while I still know how too and would re-apply. Although, who would be there to vote people in?

I think as SSRL we should start re-forming the SRL-Member Standards. Although a lot of "noobs" have gotten in if we stop any more from coming in that will still help.

For some reason I couldn't see pages 2 and 3….

From: Wizzup?
1. It should be more a scripting section, SSRL isn't really about scripting.
2. I don't think it should be application, rather an invitation.
3. Nope. Not hidden. An open cup and rank.

I see the points for and against having an another group, and I can't decide, but if there is another it should be like that.

From: Wizzup?
First of all, I talked to The Claw about this and he now supports this idea…
I'm happy you agree with him. ;)

I don't support this idea, I thought I clarified last night…the thing I said I supported which you suggested was making SSRL a public group (meaning all people can see whos in it) because of all the controversy it would cause lol. I dont support making the new usergroup. The reasons I dont support it:

- We already have 4 (four) usergroups all seperated by scripting skill, which are SRL Junior, SRL Member, SSRL Member, and Dev. Already this is too much imo.
- Like Nielsie said having another usergroup would just complicate things further and cause a bigger mess
- There are no real advantages to another usergroup, saying "there are leaks in srl members" is probably true but who cares really. Its nothing major and it doesnt deter people from posting anything in there.
- Want intelligent conversation? Post in SRL members and delete the stupid posts.
- If we segregate the community further, people will start splitting into their own groups determined by their forum usergroup. What I mean is, People of SRL Members dont post much in the Junior section anymore right? Junior members dont post in the "free for all" section right? What if we make another semi-large group? People in the group wont post as much in SRL Members anymore. The only reason SSRL works is cause its small.
- I reckon SRL Members will die if we do this. All the good posters in there will just post in this new section, and the only SRL Members left will just be the less-intelligent ones. Resulting in a forum of stupid posts, spam, no good content, making it harder for people who want to learn….reminds me of the Junior SRL Member section.

Theres more but I gtg for dinner. But if you want better content in SRL Members forum? Make a sticky in there telling people to shape-up, and become stricter on letting people in. making yet another whole new usergroup isnt the answer.

Now, let's say SSRL would be public, we need a new option to the "Infra-Bot", - 'Asking for leaking'. Also, would the information about where do the big avatars come from be published? I don't know it's needed, but that would prevent more "omg big avvy how?" threads come, with always like 3 pages of "It comes from cups" in different words and the regular SRL Members then thinking it came with some specific cup posting
"/drool I wish I had that <cup>" etc.


Wait a second, they wont beg to leak since they don't know what is here -.-

From: n3ss3s
Now, let's say SSRL would be public, we need a new option to the "Infra-Bot", - 'Asking for leaking'. Also, would the information about where do the big avatars come from be published? I don't know it's needed, but that would prevent more "omg big avvy how?" threads come, with always like 3 pages of "It comes from cups" in different words and the regular SRL Members then thinking it came with some specific cup posting
"/drool I wish I had that <cup>" etc.


Wait a second, they wont beg to leak since they don't know what is here -.-

If SSRL is made public I think we would have to explain most of the benefits and privileges of SSRL. We'll need to explain first what SSRL is, what it does, what benefits and privileges we get. The only thing I think we should hide is SMART v2 - its just too controversial.

Agreed.

From: Smartzkid
Thought about it some more, and I've changed my vote to no. SRL members started out as the 'elite', but after time, they became 'diluted' by a bunch of people who aren't very good at scripting. I say demote members. Whether to randomly demote them, or to demote them every x months, I don't know, but it seems to be the best way to keep the SRL Members group from going (even more so) to an unknowledgeable mass leechers.

From: JAD
http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23651

Well isn't that amazing. Some people's opinions apparently change when somebody more important posts a suggestion :)


Anyways, I'm kind of with it and I'm kind of against it.

1. SRL members is full of noobs and everything single thing in it has and is being leaked.

2. SSRL + right now are the only groups that can be trusted with anything in any way at all.

3. I think the standards for SRL members needs to be risen, but it's too late to do that now because so many have gotten in that would be under those new standards. I'm kind of leaning towards we killing the SRL members section, and just making the people in SRL members section need to re-apply to get into a new members section.

So basically I think that a cleaning is needed for the SRL group, but we don't need a new group. But since it would take forever to clean the SRL group and then set a new standard for applying, we should just make a new group with the new standards and make SRL members less hard to get into, or remove it completely.

So I say we either (pretty much) make a re-apply for members, but with higher standards, the way I said above, or we don't make the new group at all and make SSRL not secret.

But it'd kind of be dumb to keep SSRL secret, the SSRL members who aren't good at scripting/don't script anymore can't get into the new group, and then the people who aren't good enough to get into SSRL yet get to have a title above us while we still look like ordinary SRL members.


Anyways, that's my scattered thoughts.

~JAD

Since you basically suggest the same:
Personally, I do not think removing SRL-Member statussen is good for the moral on this forum, which is why I came with a new rank. If we can't delete them, we seperate them in a new group. This new group however, does not necessarily mean the SRL-Members group should die. SSRL Members still post in the SRL-Members section, right? Its just an extra layer for the SRL Members who are not SSRL worthy, but are good scripters and deserve a better place at SRL. Personally, if I would be a SRL-Member only, I would leave SRL pretty quickly, getting highly annoyed by the amount of noobs in SRL-Members.

From: The Claw
- There are no real advantages to another usergroup, saying "there are leaks in srl members" is probably true but who cares really. Its nothing major and it doesnt deter people from posting anything in there.
- Want intelligent conversation? Post in SRL members and delete the stupid posts.
- If we segregate the community further, people will start splitting into their own groups determined by their forum usergroup. What I mean is, People of SRL Members dont post much in the Junior section anymore right? Junior members dont post in the "free for all" section right? What if we make another semi-large group? People in the group wont post as much in SRL Members anymore. The only reason SSRL works is cause its small.
- I reckon SRL Members will die if we do this. All the good posters in there will just post in this new section, and the only SRL Members left will just be the less-intelligent ones. Resulting in a forum of stupid posts, spam, no good content, making it harder for people who want to learn….reminds me of the Junior SRL Member section.

Theres more but I gtg for dinner. But if you want better content in SRL Members forum? Make a sticky in there telling people to shape-up, and become stricter on letting people in. making yet another whole new usergroup isnt the answer.

Misunderstanding. ;)

Want an intelligent conversation? Just delete posts.

Are you proposing censorship? That seems like a pretty stupid solution in my eyes.

If we segregate the community further, people will start splitting into their own groups determined by their forum usergroup. What I mean is, People of SRL Members dont post much in the Junior section anymore right? Junior members dont post in the "free for all" section right?

Actually, that is not true. SRL-Members post in the Juniors Section alot.
This point is not a valid one.

I reckon SRL Members will die if we do this. All the good posters in there will just post in this new section, and the only SRL Members left will just be the less-intelligent ones. Resulting in a forum of stupid posts, spam, no good content, making it harder for people who want to learn….reminds me of the Junior SRL Member section.

Again, why would the people who have been granted the new cup stop posting in the SRL-Members section? Thats just dishonest to suggest. Refer to my above paragraph.
Even if the SRL Members section would 'die', then we woul have succesfully cleaned up the SRL-Members section. It will not come that far though.

~Wizz.

If we segregate the community further, people will start splitting into their own groups determined by their forum usergroup. What I mean is, People of SRL Members dont post much in the Junior section anymore right? Junior members dont post in the "free for all" section right?

Actually, that is not true. SRL-Members post in the Juniors Section alot.
This point is not a valid one.

That's true, but they only post in the General News and Help sections. Maybe that's because the members section is not "enough" for them. If we split that up, I think the members section will get used even less. The snippets and SRL development will move to the higher section. Leaving News/Discussions/Help left as active sections.

Conclusion: No new section, but the rank of SRL/SSRL Member scripters would be like yea, "SRL Member / SRL Scripter" or so.

Do you conclude that from this thread? I know you want your title changed fast :p, but that's not what this thread is about.

Want an intelligent conversation? Just delete posts.

Are you proposing censorship? That seems like a pretty stupid solution in my eyes.

If we segregate the community further, people will start splitting into their own groups determined by their forum usergroup. What I mean is, People of SRL Members dont post much in the Junior section anymore right? Junior members dont post in the "free for all" section right?

Actually, that is not true. SRL-Members post in the Juniors Section alot.
This point is not a valid one.

I reckon SRL Members will die if we do this. All the good posters in there will just post in this new section, and the only SRL Members left will just be the less-intelligent ones. Resulting in a forum of stupid posts, spam, no good content, making it harder for people who want to learn….reminds me of the Junior SRL Member section.

Again, why would the people who have been granted the new cup stop posting in the SRL-Members section? Thats just dishonest to suggest. Refer to my above paragraph.
Even if the SRL Members section would 'die', then we woul have succesfully cleaned up the SRL-Members section. It will not come that far though.

Nah not proposing censorship, what I meant was delete all the stupid spam thats been posted, which should happen on a well moderated forum anyway. At the moment SRL Members post in the Junior Forum a lot, true, but not as much as they would if it was all one section. No, I'm not suggesting we make it one whole section, but think about it - If a member has the option of posting a help topic in the choice of 3 forums of varying talent levels which one will they choose? The highest one. If they want a good discussion? Again, the highest forum. Partly because they think it would get them better answers, partly because it makes them feel more important than the lower forums. Then theres an uneven spread of content, for example: nice code posted in higher up sections while help topics and news etc stays in the lower. Look I guess the main point is, instead of making endless new usergroups to try and improve the whole section, just work with what we have and try to increase the good posts and decrease the bad ones, instead of giving up on a section completely and making another new one. What will happen when this new section gets 200 users as well? Make a group for between "between srl and ssrl" and ssrl? lol.

So my opinion is to: Prune inactive SRL members, get some more mods (not suggesting myself so dw) to clear up the section, start deleting all the stupid posts and give out infractions for them. Make it harder to get into SRL Members, impress upon SRL Members that their position is meant to be somewhat elite and tell them that they shouldnt post stupid shit anymore. And to try and make posts intelligent. We should try and transform the current SRL Member section, to make it better for all - not give up on it.

Do you conclude that from this thread? I know you want your title changed fast , but that's not what this thread is about.

No…t fully :p

Now I'm getting tangled to my own thoughts, I kind of think there shouldn't be a new section, but then again I think the SRL Member that are good scripters and do it a lot slowly might get a little bored to their azrael and in the end feed it to the Chinese (no offense, was it cat or dog that they eat?).

(not suggesting myself so dw)

Alcohol + Moderator Panel = Not good.

From: ZephyrsFury
I see what Wizz's intentions are.

I agree that SRL Mems need something to try to achieve - something that they can set as a goal - a reasonable goal not just some secret rank or a cup. Right now they have nothing. You become SRL Mem and you don't have any… nothing to try and achieve. I mean you can try to become a dev or SSRL but not many people will actually make it. I mean how many devs are there and compare that to the number of SRL Mems.

So what I'm trying to say is that I support Wizzup's attitude towards this but I do not suppose creating a new rank.

I agree with a big part of this. I agree with that SRL Members need something to achieve for.

From: Starblaster100
Remember, it's the people who make the sections not the section itself. If someone makes SSRL more scripting orientated, it will become more scripting orientated: It's as simple as that.

I also don't think we need to create more sections. Why add more rungs to the ladder? Others have climbed it successfully, so what's stopping anyone else?

Thats my opinion.

You see I've left some things out.
It's true, the people make the sections, but again, I dont want SSRL member to be public. Let's look at Markus' opinion:

From: Markus
Imagine what would happen if the SSRL list goes public: many people will pester the SSRL's to leak, to invite them, and we'll get a lot of other annoying noobs shitting at us. You want to have like 15 people saying "poll me pl0x?" via PM/IM? Well I rather don't.
SSRL is here to have a leak-free environment, which is for 95% accomplished. If you don't know who is SSRL, you don't know who to ask for the stuff, and so it decreases the leakage. Really, it's very easy to accidentally leak when asked about it.
Oh, and the afterglow avatars aren't really that discrete ;)

I sooo totally agree with him.

From: Smartzkid
Thought about it some more, and I've changed my vote to no. SRL members started out as the 'elite', but after time, they became 'diluted' by a bunch of people who aren't very good at scripting. I say demote members. Whether to randomly demote them, or to demote them every x months, I don't know, but it seems to be the best way to keep the SRL Members group from going (even more so) to an unknowledgeable mass leechers.

That's exactly what I think.

From: nielsie95
Do you conclude that from this thread? I know you want your title changed fast :p, but that's not what this thread is about.

Hehe, nice one Niels:)

I persopnally, don't think that a new group is the solution.
I think we should make something for the SRL Members to achieve for, a new cup or so. Higher standards/cleaning up the SRL member group, also sounds as music in my ears.

-Tsn.

From: n3ss3s
Alcohol + Moderator Panel = Not good.

lol, it was only once or twice….i dont really drink anymore anyway, i prefer other stuff, but either way im not coming on srl when im intoxicated anymore :)

From: The Claw
lol, it was only once or twice….i dont really drink anymore anyway, i prefer other stuff, but either way im not coming on srl when im intoxicated anymore :)

alcochol is good! last time was yesterday:)

Bowling+snoockering+girls+alcohol = asweome!

-Tsn.

From: the scar noob
alcochol is good! last time was yesterday:)

Bowling+snoockering+girls+alcohol = asweome!

-Tsn.

Haha, your huge post just lost all the reliability =D

I know what Markus is trying to say, but we could make rules,

• No asking for being polled
• And this one…
• Another…

People who ask for being polled could be infracted.

As Zephyr said, I don't doubt a bit that we could politely tell them No, and that patience is a virtue. That way they feel noobs and scared :p

From: n3ss3s
Haha, your huge post just lost all the reliability =D

haha it's true! you should try it once:)

From: n3ss3s

I know what Markus is trying to say, but we could make rules,

• No asking for being polled
• And this one…
• Another…

People who ask for being polled could be infracted.

As Zephyr said, I don't doubt a bit that we could politely tell them No, and that patience is a virtue. That way they feel noobs and scared :p

I still think it shouldn't be public..

-Tsn.

haha it's true! you should try it once

I'm 13. Cookies > Alcohol :p

Public SSRL…would solve some problems, yet make some others. Not sure if it's worth it. Cons have already been listed (pestering, etc), but a nice advantage of public SSRL is that we would be able to explain why certain people can do certain things, no more conspiracy theories.

I think we should make a list of the best SRL Members, then demote everyone else. What good are SRL Members if they can't script. The demotion would be planned ahead by at least a month, giving everyone a chance to write a script ahead of time. This demotion could be held once a year. In the months preceding the demotion, we (SSRL+) could compile a list of SRL Members who are worthy of the title, anyone on this list would be notified prior to the demotion that they aren't going to be demoted (save them writing an application script in advance).

Also, I personally think any script should be allowed (for the re-application, first time applicants should still have to write a RS based script), not just RS ones. But that's just because I don't like RS anymore, and I don't feel like wasting my time writing a good script for it - I'd much rather finish writing something useful like my webcam motion detector/tracker/recorder.

From: Smartzkid
Public SSRL…would solve some problems, yet make some others. Not sure if it's worth it. Cons have already been listed (pestering, etc), but a nice advantage of public SSRL is that we would be able to explain why certain people can do certain things, no more conspiracy theories.

I think we should make a list of the best SRL Members, then demote everyone else. What good are SRL Members if they can't script. The demotion would be planned ahead by at least a month, giving everyone a chance to write a script ahead of time. This demotion could be held once a year. In the months preceding the demotion, we (SSRL+) could compile a list of SRL Members who are worthy of the title, anyone on this list would be notified prior to the demotion that they aren't going to be demoted (save them writing an application script in advance).

Also, I personally think any script should be allowed (for the re-application, first time applicants should still have to write a RS based script), not just RS ones. But that's just because I don't like RS anymore, and I don't feel like wasting my time writing a good script for it - I'd much rather finish writing something useful like my webcam motion detector/tracker/recorder.

Right now I don't think theres any reason to keep SSRL hidden. What good does it do? A lot of members already can tell who is SSRL through their afterglow avatars or through seeing infractions.

If you are worried that people will bother you with requests to become SSRL, etc I'm sure we can make a post or something explaining SSRL and emphasizing that its is invite only and asking will decrease your chances of being successful.

I also do think that SRL Member's standards are seriously low and we need to do something about it urgently. I do agree that we purge the SRL Mems and ask them to reapply (with any script whether it be RS or non-RS as long as it is at a required level). But is a regular mass demotion really required? If we enforce to the SRL Mems (the ones that have reapplied and are successful) that a high standard is required (not just some stupid script that obviously doesn't work) that should be enough to prevent a repeat of whats happening to happen again. The standard hasn't just dropped overnight. Its been a gradual thing that started when we subtly and unknowingly lowered our standards.

And there are many people who are SRL Members that can't script but instead contribute through helping others, being mature, responsible and being a prized member of hte community.

Indeed, it is clear that the mass "re-make" cannot be done entirely based on the re-apply. People who were invited would be left there, for instance. The SRL members who truly can script will get in.

Hehe, I wonder what does the 'Roalty of MasterKill' think when his 'almightyness' get's Junior Memberized =D

From: Smartzkid
Public SSRL…would solve some problems, yet make some others. Not sure if it's worth it. Cons have already been listed (pestering, etc), but a nice advantage of public SSRL is that we would be able to explain why certain people can do certain things, no more conspiracy theories.

I think we should make a list of the best SRL Members, then demote everyone else. What good are SRL Members if they can't script. The demotion would be planned ahead by at least a month, giving everyone a chance to write a script ahead of time. This demotion could be held once a year. In the months preceding the demotion, we (SSRL+) could compile a list of SRL Members who are worthy of the title, anyone on this list would be notified prior to the demotion that they aren't going to be demoted (save them writing an application script in advance).

Also, I personally think any script should be allowed (for the re-application, first time applicants should still have to write a RS based script), not just RS ones. But that's just because I don't like RS anymore, and I don't feel like wasting my time writing a good script for it - I'd much rather finish writing something useful like my webcam motion detector/tracker/recorder.

From: ZephyrsFury
Right now I don't think theres any reason to keep SSRL hidden. What good does it do? A lot of members already can tell who is SSRL through their afterglow avatars or through seeing infractions.

If you are worried that people will bother you with requests to become SSRL, etc I'm sure we can make a post or something explaining SSRL and emphasizing that its is invite only and asking will decrease your chances of being successful.

I also do think that SRL Member's standards are seriously low and we need to do something about it urgently. I do agree that we purge the SRL Mems and ask them to reapply (with any script whether it be RS or non-RS as long as it is at a required level). But is a regular mass demotion really required? If we enforce to the SRL Mems (the ones that have reapplied and are successful) that a high standard is required (not just some stupid script that obviously doesn't work) that should be enough to prevent a repeat of whats happening to happen again. The standard hasn't just dropped overnight. Its been a gradual thing that started when we subtlely and unknowingly lowered our standards.

And there are many people who are SRL Members that can't script but instead contribute through helping others, being mature, responsible and being a prized member of hte community.

You guys are sooo mature! You both can actually talk and give your own opinion. I like that!

I just want to say something about smartz said.
I think that the applications that are being entered, that they have to do something with RS.This whole forum (80%?) RS- related.

It's up to us (or admins:p)wether to decide if we keep this forum RS- related, or just SCAR- related?
SRL = Scar Resource Libary, hmm, I don't see anything RS-related in there, but yet, the libary is all RS-releated+forums.

However, I think it's the best to keep itRS-related anyway, because else this forum is lost, I think.

-Tsn.

From: the scar noob
You guys are sooo mature! You both can actually talk and give your own opinion. I like that!

I just want to say something about smartz said.
I think that the applications that are being entered, that they have to do something with RS.This whole forum (80%?) RS- related.

It's up to us (or admins:p)wether to decide if we keep this forum RS- related, or just SCAR- related?
SRL = Scar Resource Libary, hmm, I don't see anything RS-related in there, but yet, the libary is all RS-releated+forums.

However, I think it's the best to keep itRS-related anyway, because else this forum is lost, I think.

-Tsn.

I'm sure you can give your opinions as well. :)

When I think of 'RS-related' scripts I think of scripts that actually play the game for you. Of course SRL-Forums is fundamentally a place to download a set of includes for RS but its become more of just a scripting forum. Basically what I'm trying to say is that if someone were to apply with a scripting tool made in SCAR (such as nielsie's ACA v1) we should be able to judge that as well as if it was a powerminer for example.

Why are you talking about RS now?

Let's not start to shizzle with what is this forum about…


If it is a 'scripting tool', yes, we can see the skills in there too…

From: n3ss3s
Why are you talking about RS now?

Let's not start to shizzle with what is this forum about…


If it is a 'scripting tool', yes, we can see the skills in there too…

I'm just saying that if we were to dememeberise everyone and made the reapply they could do it with a non-RS script instead of limiting it to RS-based scripts only.

Indeed… You see, the problem is that my response wasn't at your post =D

Pruning SRL-Members… I've seen pruning in at least 15 threads, and each and every one of those threads were flamed horribly. It may not be the same kind but I think if we're to post a thread in SRL Members about this, we better not use the word "pruning".

So from what I understand,

• SSRL, Private or Public.
• Mass Dememberization.
• SRL-Members = The Elite (Not the better).
• Improve the Scripting Quota.

Ok, I think we need to first of all Develop a Team (We could just use SSRL) that would be working with all of this. I think the administrators / moderators need to make a post in the free section announcing that SRL-Members will not be accepting applications for 1 Month (-ish). After the general public has been notified moderators will need to make a post in SRL-Members explaining our situation (Poor Scripters, Not Elite, Ect…) and that everyone who isn't on this "Master List" of people who we already think should stay, has to submit a "High-Quality" script made by themselves to a "Panel" of judges (I.E. SSRL Members). Scripts will be posted in their own section and judges and the "accepted" will be the only ones who can vote on these "re-applications".

Bam! I think the covers almost everything.

(1) Alerts the public that SRL-Members is going to be harder to get into.
(2) Cleans out SRL-Members efficiently.
(3) Informs SRL-Members of their Role.
(3) Announces SSRL to the public as "the panel".

I'm sure there are some holes in my idea but I'm fairly certain there aren't many we can't fix.

From: Special Ed
Pruning SRL-Members… I've seen pruning in at least 15 threads, and each and every one of those threads were flamed horribly. It may not be the same kind but I think if we're to post a thread in SRL Members about this, we better not use the word "pruning".

So from what I understand,

• SSRL, Private or Public.
• Mass Dememberization.
• SRL-Members = The Elite (Not the better).
• Improve the Scripting Quota.

Ok, I think we need to first of all Develop a Team (We could just use SSRL) that would be working with all of this. I think the administrators / moderators need to make a post in the free section announcing that SRL-Members will not be accepting applications for 1 Month (-ish). After the general public has been notified moderators will need to make a post in SRL-Members explaining our situation (Poor Scripters, Not Elite, Ect…) and that everyone who isn't on this "Master List" of people who we already think should stay, has to submit a "High-Quality" script made by themselves to a "Panel" of judges (I.E. SSRL Members). Scripts will be posted in their own section and judges and the "accepted" will be the only ones who can vote on these "re-applications".

Bam! I think the covers almost everything.

(1) Alerts the public that SRL-Members is going to be harder to get into.
(2) Cleans out SRL-Members efficiently.
(3) Informs SRL-Members of their Role.
(3) Announces SSRL to the public as "the panel".

I'm sure there are some holes in my idea but I'm fairly certain there aren't many we can't fix.

I don't agree with the "elite" part:p
Else, SRL Members would count as less users as it's started with:) Why not make SRL Private again? lol

I'm pretty sure we all ment the "better" srl members, not guys like RudeBoiAlex (is he still around?:p) and nauman.. (no offense, this is my own opinion..).

If you all really mean the elite ones, that should be like 3/4 (maybe 1/2) of SSRL Members (and ++) anda very few SRL Members.

Voilla! That are aprox. 40 people or so?:p

-Tsn.

If you think about it, not many go anywhere after becoming an SRL member.

When I became an SRL member, these were all the people who voted (who posted, anyways):


-Whocares357
-YoHoJo
-Boreas
-Hey321
-Pwnaz0r
-WhiteShadow
-WT-Fakawi


And Fawki took a while to get to the thread too. So all those people, excluding the banned Hey321, are SSRL members + now. SRL members must have been a good place then from what I can remember.

Take a look at my members thread:

http://www.villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6440

and take a look at any other members application from recently. It's so much more cluttered, so many opinions being reposted, so much useless posts, and so much crap in the new threads.

So, SRL members was definitely a quality over quantity group then. After that, many many more people got in and if you look at the percentage that get into a higher group after that, it's very minuscule. I mean, how many people get members a month? Maybe 10, give or take? So in a year that'd be 120 new members. How many people out of those will move up to any type of higher group? maybe 2 at the most.


So what I'm getting at, which was stated above but I wanted to explain, is that members was full of quality people, mature people, and people that would help the forums more then hurt. Now, SRL members can't be trusted with anything, SRL members many times hurt the forums more then help, and many SRL members set a very bad example and show how much maturity one can lack.

I think we need a group like the old days for SRL members. IMO, we need to do 1 of 2 things:

-Be much more strict on SPAM when people apply for this new group and raise the scripting standards just a bit, but more so on spam. And also only allow certain people in this new group to vote.

or

-Raise the standards for regular SRL members on SPAM like above to reduce SPAM in members section, do more demoting, and also only allowing certain people to vote on who gets in here would be good too IMO.


So that's my opinion. Either way we go, I think it'd be a great thing for these forums to not allow every noob who gets into members or is already in members to vote, and only allow us SSRL people and above vote, and a select few of SRL members to vote.

Many SRL members feel that they are less important if more people get in to the SRL members group so they will vote no on everything just to make themselves feel above average, believe it or not, so I think that if only those who have been here a while and are approved mature were to vote, it would really change things for the better. And if you look, there isn't 1 app in the members section now that has all yes's even if the app should be a clear yes. That's from much what I said above.


Sorry for such a long post,

~JAD

Very good posts, you and Ed :)

No offense TSN :rolleyes:


But yes, maybe not the new members that barely got in should be allowed to vote, Cazax for example, Hermpie today linked me to a script by this Waddo, which would definetly not get him into members, then he pmed me saying Cazax told him to do something (which was very small) and apply.

From: n3ss3s
I nominate you to be the king of the world.

EDIT: I mean Special Ed, no offense :p

*Cries* :(

When I came to this thread again, I only saw Ed's post, commented, and boom, there were your and tsn's in there too :p

Good posts, both of ya…

Agreed with Special Ed.
This is just getting out of control, the more "bad" SRL Members get in, the more influence they have, the even worse SRL members section becomes. Imo we need a stickied list of the requirements of SRL Members, maybe even with examples on what not to do.
Global dememberization would be cool too, although it's a lot of work. Stronger moderation would help too.

I think my post about the requirements in the FAQ is good, atleast on the script requirement behalf.

If some admin or mod could 'merge' it one with then the 'attitude requirements' when this plan of ours comes into effect?

Will dememberizing almost every SRL member make them mad enough to leak the scripts they have gotten? (albeit they are leaked already)

Also, just thinking, if we do demeberize the members, should SSRL make some scripts to put in the member section to make it more worthwhile? All SSRL were originally considered because they had at least a pretty good scripting skill, so I'm sure we could all make good scripts to put in the members section.

I still don't think dememberizing SRL-Members is a good idea…

From: Wizzup?
I still don't think dememberizing SRL-Members is a good idea…

Why? I thought I'd get a little bit more than that out of Wizzup? I don't think we should dememberize all of them, I think the idea I had suggested would be our best possible route rather than doing nothing.

Well, here's an alternate idea:

Add a flag to users that is admin-granted (+/ SSRL voted, etc, etc). Users with this flag would be able to vote on apps. OR… The flag could be automatically given to users when they are accepted, then could be removed if users showed signs of immaturity. That way people who are nice and all, but can't script for their life wouldn't contribute to the 'dillution'. In addition, SSRL could pick out the worst of the current members to be demoted, and the 'not very good' of the bunch to be unflagged. This would allow non-scripters with great attitudes to be in Members without affecting the future level of the group.

From: Smartzkid
Well, here's an alternate idea:

Add a flag to users that is admin-granted (+/ SSRL voted, etc, etc). Users with this flag would be able to vote on apps. OR… The flag could be automatically given to users when they are accepted, then could be removed if users showed signs of immaturity. That way people who are nice and all, but can't script for their life wouldn't contribute to the 'dillution'. In addition, SSRL could pick out the worst of the current members to be demoted, and the 'not very good' of the bunch to be unflagged. This would allow non-scripters with great attitudes to be in Members without affecting the future level of the group.

Exactly my idea explained.

I think we should then give the voting flag to people who have been in the members section long enough, and who have shown that their posts aren't crap and they are mature.

No matter what happens, I definitely think that this should be considered and something along the lines of this should be put on the forums.

Before people come and shoot down this most recent idea…something must be done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We can not just let it be, we just have to take action.

So, dememberization or flag?

Lots of good ideas, my opinion is on the edge now.

The problem with dememberisation is that a lot of members who have posted in that section will not be able to access it anymore, therefore it would make sense to make a new usergroup between SSRL and SRL.

However, i also do not like the idea of splitting the forum up as it just divides us all even more. The point of JSRL was to stop leechers gaining scripts just by signing up, not to segregate beginner scripters from others. By creating a new group, we would be splitting scripters up.

I do not like the idea of only allowing certain people to vote. As i said before, its the people who make the section, and everyone in there deserves to have a say on who else should be in there.

How i see it, we can do a few things:

• Create a new section (Invite only / Apps)
• Tell everyone to back up all important posts from SRL member section (Scripts, opinions etc). Then De-memberise everyone and reset the whole forum to be fair. (not the best idea IMO)
• Make SSRL more public, and more scripting orientated. This would probably mean removal of mod powers however, as not all scripters and good moderators.

From: Starblaster100

How i see it, we can do a few things:

• Create a new section (Invite only / Apps)
• Tell everyone to back up all important posts from SRL member section (Scripts, opinions etc). Then De-memberise everyone and reset the whole forum to be fair. (not the best idea IMO)
• Make SSRL more public, and more scripting orientated. This would probably mean removal of mod powers however, as not all scripters and good moderators.

• I'm against this new rank/forum cos I do not see a need for it. SRL Mems can have different things to aim for such as cups and becoming SSRL which I think should be made public.
• Now that I think about it through the eyes of a normal-SRL member I'm on the fence with this 'purge'. I know a lot of them will get angry and go on riots but a lot of them will also be very sad that they got dememberised. I know several SRL mems and Junior mems that have worked or are working very hard to become SRL Member but I do also think that the standard is way too low for us to not do anything drastic.
• I also do not support this idea about restricting voting powers to a group of people only. Again this is like creating a new subgroup in SRL Members which is what a lot of people were against in the first place.
• Yes if we make SSRL public we should make it more scripting related but we can also keep our current role as the 'board' of the forum.

Let's stay as the board, and also, as SB said - it's the people that make the sections.

I think we should make a very clear post on how to vote on member apps (like Special Ed proposed, I believe). When SSRL is made public, I want it to be just like the dev section, you know who's in it, you know the benefits, but you don't know what's happening in there. SSRL should be like that, members shouldn't know about SMART v2, but they should know about the infractions.

Hüber agree!

Let's now close the connection between our brains, shall we ;)

From: n3ss3s
Hüber agree!

Let's now close the connection between our brains, shall we ;)

We need a poll. We've changed the subject soo many times I've lost track of what we're doing.

We are making SSRL public, don't know about other stuff, also increasing the 'quality' of voting in SRL Members.

I think Nielsies post should be the way of the SSRL being made public :)

SSRL Public would give the SRL Members a new "target", but on the other hand how can they work for it since its invite only?

From: mastaraymond
SSRL Public would give the SRL Members a new "target", but on the other hand how can they work for it since its invite only?

The same way they do now by scripting, being helpful and a vital part of the community. Its just now SSRL is public, 'real' and something that can be achieved.

Ofcourse they can work for it!

They can change their attitude, they can become better at scripting, you seem to have a very small idea of what a good motivation can do ;)

But whats the difference between seeing who is actually in SSRL?

Starblaster once posted about the existence of SSRL in the SRL member group. Meaning people would know about it already.

I think the real question is how to keep the SRL Members motivated?

Well if people see who is SSRL then and see people getting promoted it will tell them that its not just some secretive group of people who are above all others. We can make it clear when someone is promoted or something like that by posting. That way they see that people at their level are infact able to join this group.That should keep them motivated and trying to achieve that goal.

From: ZephyrsFury
Well if people see who is SSRL then and see people getting promoted it will tell them that its not just some secretive group of people who are above all others. We can make it clear when someone is promoted or something like that by posting. This way it should keep them motivated and keep trying to achieve that goal.

And yet I don't think its the solution to the problem. SRL Members would still be "dying"… There must be some new thing to focus on.. Maybe even prune the members or select some members who can test SMART v2…. It would give members a real new "boost"..

From: mastaraymond
And yet I don't think its the solution to the problem. SRL Members would still be "dying"… There must be some new thing to focus on.. Maybe even prune the members or select some members who can test SMART v2…. It would give members a real new "boost"..

Selecting a few members to test SMART is again dividing the ranks up again. Besides I don't really agree with the whole idea of SMART v2 anyway. And I don't see how pruning members is gonna give them a boost of spirit.

From: mastaraymond
I think the real question is how to keep the SRL Members motivated?

That's what this thread is about, some want a new usergroup, I say a cup is enough. SSRL public and Member voting popped up along the way.

There doesn't need to be specific SRL Members get to test SMART v2 because the ones that would be trusted with that are most likely good members of the community enough to become SSRL Member themselves!

From: ZephyrsFury
Selecting a few members to test SMART is again dividing the ranks up again. Besides I don't really agree with the whole idea of SMART v2 anyway. And I don't see how pruning members is gonna give them a boost of spirit.

Another cause of the SRL Member dying is because the "dying" of RS Cheating. With smart v2 it's way easier to create really stable scripts. Why not give the "better" SRL Member people this opportunity?

Even if they get a cup or a title after they achieved it there still isn't much changed is their? Only a new goal which many won't assume as goal since there isn't really an reward. Giving for example smart v2 as reward would be realistic, they would really "work" for it..

From: nielsie95
That's what this thread is about, some want a new usergroup, I say a cup is enough. SSRL public and Member voting popped up along the way.

I say a new cup!

-Tsn.

EDIT: Ans as Ray said, we just need something to motivate the SRL Members. Stop snoring and give other ideas:)

Going back a while, concerning who can vote on applications. I think that SRL-Members should wait a minimum of 2 weeks in SRL-Members before they can vote. Yes you may assume that if they got into SRL they should be able to judge what is SRL-Members worthy and what isn't, but a great deal of learning takes place after being accepting into SRL. Part of that learning in knowing what is bad / ok / and good as far as scripting goes, and being exposed to the SRL-Member environment (IMO) gives you a better sense of that.

I know that dememberizing the entire SRL-Member population will piss someone off. However, if we give them a chance to save themselves before they are dememberized people won't be so angry about it since they know they can just prove themselves, or they will learn and act better to prove that they are SRL-Members worthy solving the problem irregardless of if they stay or are removed from members.

As far as making SSRL public, I do think it will give SRL-Members a goal to work towards, but I also don't think that it will satisfy the position for better scripters unless we do something about the low quality of SRL-Members first.

Quite frankly, I don't think public SSRL will solve any of our current problems.

Q & A with Smartzkid:
Need motivated scripters? Hold competitions.
Want to eliminate leakers? Reset the group.
Want to turn SRL into a freak scar-java forum? Release SMART v2.
Want to ensure the future of the group? Only let responsible members vote.
Want to keep SRL alive? Make compromises to a point where most everyone agrees on one solution, and implement it. And be quick about it.

No public SSRL! Those avvys only came out due to a misunderstanding. The knowledge that there is a group above members is enough motivation (plus theres devs).

And no to demoting mainly because of moral and leaking (not sure whats in there to leak but its probably enough to be a problem).

why not make it so you can apply to be ssrl? just like how you can apply for dev

edit - hahahahah "wizzup stole free bread and took it back for a refund"

But Boreas, atleast what I have understood, it isn't about the avatars, but then again we cannot argue about whether the current situation, just the information about some group to achieve exists is enough motivation or not…


I love you and your sig, Claw =p

Sorry to bump into this thread, but it caught my attention. Haven't read all but browsed through 90%.

• SMART v2 remains private. Its too powerfull.
• Keep SSRL "secret". All large boards have hidden layers. Its good to have hierarchy. It keeps the place interesting and serves as a nice friends hideout.
• Dont prune. Just dont. It serves no purpose. Most members become inactive at a certain point, but pop in once and a while if they can spare the time. Sometimes Flyboy, ppsuqbalwz, Abyssal, pups, Bebe and even Sythe pop in just to name a few, and allthough they are inactive 99% of the time, they have a right to be here.
• If you all believe there are no real rewards in being a SRL-member, -which I think this whole discussion is all about-, you should create a rank I guess. I dont think yet another layer will help you solve this issue. Stackable ranks might do the trick. Maybe look around at other forums and see how they handle problems like these. I remember fagex had stackable nifty little runescape items. So, cosmetics might do the trick. Do a forumfacelift. This is pure adminbusiness though, they should join forces. Its a lot of work.
• Add new SSRL's. Keep the machine rolling. Add mods/devs once and a while. Keeps the joint alive.

I havent been around in quite a while, and I will continue to be idle for some time, but activitiy isnt dropping at all. Still 500+ visitors each day and 70+ visitors online as we speak.

Good show guys. Dont change too much. I think you are still doing grrreat!

I almost think apply for SSRL would be a good idea. That would motivate people to script and stuff because then they will feel like we've actually been watching what they script/who they help…etc., even though we already do.

I don't think we should lower the standards of SSRL (make it more scripting oriented, less maturity). Why screw up another group? There's some great scripters who can't keep a secret to save their lives, or who will boast about being in SSRL…etc.


I think being able to apply for SSRL would bring a new motivation, but it could be like applying for dev; you can't see your app and what people say.

I don't think SSRL is something that you should be able to apply for, it limits the amount of people who can be in it this way and it encourages the people who know of SSRL to try to be noticed rather than just asking to be in.

Also I didn't know you could apply for Dev? How would one go about doing this? :)

PM you favorite administrator with an application script, I believe.

Good to see you, Fawki, and thanks for the insight.

Also, I agree with JAD. I think SSRL should stay invite only. If there's a good enough scripter who is mature, we will find him. If we go with appliances, the admins will just be spammed with invites by lots of members who have absolutely no chance of getting in.

I like the idea of stackable runescape items as cups, but how would we spread them? There has been a thread on new cups and we only came up with two. We could do it with rep maybe, I see rep is being used more and more.

From: nielsie95
I like the idea of stackable runescape items as cups, but how would we spread them? There has been a thread on new cups and we only came up with two. We could do it with rep maybe, I see rep is being used more and more.

rep is being used more an more? Hmm, didn't noticed that:)

However, the idea itself doesn't sounds great, I don't want to have a silly p hat and thinderbox next to my avvy:rolleyes:

-Tsn.

Do not make a script to apply for developer, try to provide some good code, including scripts ofcourse if you have made any, but especially something that SRL would benefit from, for example a new random solver. Right?

From: nielsie95
I see rep is being used more and more.

But not necessarily for the right reasons…

From: Torrent of Flame
Haha :P

I gave you rep for repping me :D

I was getting daily rep.. then my tutorials died =[

We would need to revise rules on repping. Possibly infract for pointless reps

From: Bobarkinator

We would need to revise rules on repping. Possibly infract for pointless reps

We can't infract for pointless reps unless there is some benefit of getting repped. Right now rep does not give any reward except for another green box when your rep passes 100. We need to work out some sort of system that gives a reward for positive reputation. I don't think you can even see another persons rep at the moment.

Mmmm… wasn't there a system of "grading" posts that was suggested a while back? Possibly that could "auto-calculate" rep given / taken instead of just giving straight rep.

As for Public SSRL i disagree. By being a hidden group (i reall think i'll take off my huge ava for now :( ) we can influence the community, especially SRL members without them knowing we're SSRL.

why do i say that? if an admin posts his oppinion in a thread in SRL members most srl members will immediately agree with the admin and not voice any other concerns / ideas. Same for Mods and Devs, but it usually takes 2 or 3 of them to make everyone change their minds. We're 20+ SSRL, and if we went public and people looked up to us the way they look up to mods devs and admins all the decisions would be held in this forum, because with 50+ active people in those ranks there would always be someone active to post his opinion. people would stop thinking for themselves and just follow the higher ranks.

i hope i was clear enough on what i meant. :)

btw:

RMagician hey gof
11:47 GoF` youre SSRL now? :p
11:47 *** pacfan joined #srl
11:47 pacfan RM omg ur tut kicks ass
11:47 pacfan on the findobjtpa
11:48 pacfan i now have much faster willow finding:)
11:50 RMagician thank you
11:50 RMagician gof ?
11:58 GoF` just guessing…
11:59 GoF` either donator or SSRL because not too many cups and big avatar
11:59 RMagician no i was asking you what you meant >.>
11:59 pacfan i got a question what is SSRL?
11:59 GoF` you dont know what SSRL is?
11:59 pacfan nope
11:59 RMagician not really
11:59 GoF` forget about it
11:59 RMagician read somewhere it's just a hiden group
12:00 pacfan no1 telling me what SSRL is?
12:00 GoF` yea

found it funny :p

~RM