SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

The idea of global warming has become huge and is spreading like wildfire. New illegal radical groups are taking it to the extremes to prevent global warming.


just recently a group called Earth Liberation Front (E.L.F) burnt down new mansions due to the amount of energy it would cost to maintain such extravagant houses.

My personally views on Global Warming is that it's not what we think. I believe that the fate of everything including the earth is pre-determined, and it is my belief that the earth is merely going through it's cycles, cycles that cannot be prevented regardless of our actions. To take this idea of cycles deeper I believe that the human race is a mere cycle in the earths existence and we to will one day be physically gone although our impact will live forever along with the earth. New intelligent life-forms will sprout maybe on different places in this far stretched universe or maybe on earth before its desecration. Which brings me to the question of the meaning of life, which at first may seem a complex idea. But if you really look at life you should find that there really is no ultimate meaning. Sure the experiences we have during our time on earth are dear to us and our emotions seem to be most meaningful at one time or another, but what does it all mean in the end? at the end of everything? will anything really be of importance? Not to sound depressed at all but i feel that these questions are to be sought upon by everyone so that they can really determine what they want to do with their time here on earth. To delve deeper into the idea of the importance of ones life I consider the idea that everyone lives forever, if you are here from your birth to your death, isn't that your forever? and don't your decisions, thoughts, and emotions live forever? do thoughts die along with your body or do they carry your legacy along throughout the times of the future? even if those thoughts are not known by any other life, aren't they still somewhere? Of course they say "legends never die" but what about the average everyday guy, don't they have legends of their own?


Now I am wondering into thoughts about reincarnation but i don't feel like rambling anymore so maybe that could be a different thread sometime.



So anyway….what are your opinions on Global warming? Is it happening or is it BS?

also any of the ideas i discussed in my ramble are open for responses.

its definitely real and a big problem if not fixed/reversed, but i think some people are overestimating how bad it actually is(not saying it isnt bad though)

From: Dan Cardin
its definitely real and a big problem if not fixed/reversed, but i think some people are overestimating how bad it actually is(not saying it isnt bad though)

although its not a significant amount of change, it will add up. kindof like multiplying 2s

1-pretty small number
2-still small
4
8
16
32
64-getting larger
128
256
512
1024. wow. look it got huge. all of the sudden. but the problem was the beginning. exactly like global warming. we need to stop it now. not in 10 years. not in 100 years. now.

I like your philosophy. I never thought about it that way :D. I do believe that global warming is here and our generation needs to do something about it.

From: Windoze
My personally views on Global Warming is that it's not what we think. I believe that the fate of everything including the earth is pre-determined, and it is my belief that the earth is merely going through it's cycles, cycles that cannot be prevented regardless of our actions.

Well you may as well just close your eyes whenever you cross the road because under your rules it is obviously pre-determined if you live or die so why bother looking! In fact why bother doing anything?

Lets look at it this way….

If you are wrong and you do nothing because you can't be bothered, then the world is screwed along with you me and everyone else.. Armaggedon.:fiery:

If we are wrong and we change our ways, spend a bit of time and brain power on the problem. Then the worst that will happen is that we may lose a bit of money, have cleaner air & water and just maybe live a lot longer as a result. :D

To me it's a no brainer.. Even if the world isn't going to end I still don't like breathing in noxious car fumes on a hot day, drinking poluted water, swimming in poluted lakes and seas etc etc.. get the picture?

The question with global warming now is increasingly becoming, not so much if it is occurring but how much it is affected by humans.

There are many things to look at that seem to suggest that we may not have as much of a role as we may think so for me the logical thing is to wait for some more evidence and not jump to conclusions.

A quick list of things that may seem to suggest we are not the only or main cause of global warming.

It is a fact that we are leaving an ice age.

Mars is warming up to, and we sure as hell have nothing to do with that.

Clouds have a very mis-understood role in global temperature regulation.

There are data anomalies in records that show times when CO2 concentration is not directly linked to global temperature, i.e. some times in the past records show high co2 levels except it is cold or low co2 levels and it is warm.

And many others, to be honest, we have no way of accurately simulating global conditions and no experiment can be conducted on that scale, so we should really wait before we start judging so definitively.

One last note, so many people look at the comparison of co2 levels matching temperature rising and thinking the two are completely re-lated.

However consider this, it use to be thought that in Europe the temperature caused diseases since during the summer there are more people that are sick with many infectious diseases, looking at graphs the relation is very similar with temperature showing a link to diseases, however, we know now the temperature is not what causes the diseases, but the bacteria that are more active in the summer that do.

Global Warming is still very mis-understood, lets not blame ourselves entirely for it, to be truly scientific, there is much that needs to be researched and considered before we can for sure say we are the direct and foremost cause of Global Warming.

I think its real, and but the thing is we have to make our children make their children keep spreading the word till we have a world war 3 against the world.

although its not a significant amount of change, it will add up. kindof like multiplying 2s

1-pretty small number
2-still small
4
8
16
32
64-getting larger
128
256
512
1024. wow. look it got huge. all of the sudden. but the problem was the beginning. exactly like global warming. we need to stop it now. not in 10 years. not in 100 years. now.

It's interesting that you brought that up. This directly relates to the issue, but not in the way you think. Since everyone is saying that CO2 is driving global warming, it's worthwhile to think about the rationale behind this. As CO2 levels rise in the atmosphere, it acts as a greenhouse gas to trap more heat. But a very key fact is that this relationship is NOT linear.

If it were a linear relationship, then you would say "I add 200 billion tons of CO2 to the atmosphere, and temps go up 2 degrees. I add another 200 billion tons, and they go up another 2 degrees."

In fact, it's closer to your example. You have to DOUBLE the CO2 concentration to get the temperature to go up by X degrees, and then DOUBLE it again to make it go up by the same amount again.

Since there's an upper limit to how fast we can emit CO2 into the atmosphere, the effect of CO2 on temperature will eventually plateau. It won't be an exponential increase. The warming effect of emitting more CO2 will actually exponentially decrease as the atmospheric levels rise.


Yes global mean temperatures have gone up. The temperature measurements over the last century tell us that pretty clearly. But I am very skeptical that humans are a major cause of it.

Besides, global temps are actually COLDER this year than they have been in a long time.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071219/COMMENTARY/10575140

If this last story doesn't make you skeptical, nothing will…

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm

yup i to have done a ton of research on the subject (tons for the average man)
and to think the our atmesphere is dozens of miles high and that the co2 levels are .02 percent, and that we breathed out entirly co2 (that's really realy false we breathe out what? about 1% co2?)
and lets say the sky goes up about 50 miles (strato sphere ) and one lung full of air was 1 square foot you'd have to take 260,000 breathes to make one square foot of the earths atmesphere full of CO2 now there's about one person per i'd guess around 10,000 ground-square feet per person in the world that's 2,600,000,000 (2.6 trillion) breathes,
this is simpiliy a example under horrible sercumstances to show the tiny extent of what people can due to mother nature. simpily put every last human on earth and make NO DIFFERENCE to the weather. and yes that's not what they want to to hear.

From: Korbman
Global warming is real.

So, for everyone that doesn't believe that humans can harm the earth in any way, shape, or form…and that the earth does it's own thing, totally ignoring it's inhabitants…I have a few questions:

So tell me…why are the icecaps slowly melting away?
Why are sea levels rising? Why are the temperatures rising?
Why does there appear to be a stead increase in temperatures over the past few decades (yes it does go up and down…but the mean is increasing)?
Why do I look over my city in the morning and see smog on the horizon?

I'd probably be able to think of a ton more questions…but it is 2 am and I've had a tad bit to drink :p

that smog is probably the haze in your eyes from a hang over. really if your drunk just proves that the ill-brained people believe in "global warm" stop listening the the media, get your hands dirty learn a little truth.

Global warming is real.

So, for everyone that doesn't believe that humans can harm the earth in any way, shape, or form…and that the earth does it's own thing, totally ignoring it's inhabitants…I have a few questions:

So tell me…why are the icecaps slowly melting away?
Why are sea levels rising? Why are the temperatures rising?
Why does there appear to be a stead increase in temperatures over the past few decades (yes it does go up and down…but the mean is increasing)?
Why do I look over my city in the morning and see smog on the horizon?

I'd probably be able to think of a ton more questions…but it is 2 am and I've had a tad bit to drink :p

From: Korbman

So tell me…why are the icecaps slowly melting away?
Why are sea levels rising? Why are the temperatures rising?
Why does there appear to be a stead increase in temperatures over the past few decades (yes it does go up and down…but the mean is increasing)?
Why do I look over my city in the morning and see smog on the horizon?

Are we really unusually warm? Or are we just emerging from the Little Ice Age of the 1700's?

A lot of people point to 1750 and the start of the Industrial Revolution. They say "Our temperature has gone up X degrees since we started burning coal". Well, 1750 was still the tail end of a well established global cooling period called the Little Ice Age. It's a very BAD place to use as a baseline, since that time itself was overly cool.

20,000 years ago there was a major ice age. There were glaciers covering huge parts of what is now the US. When the temperatures started climbing, do you think the Cro-Magnons or whoever was around then started freaking out and thinking the world was going to end? No, they probably thought it was a nice reprieve from the cold temperatures.

The fact is that COLD temperatures are much more harmful to civilization than warm temperatures are. So if anything, we should be glad that we've emerged from a cooler cycle into a warmer one.

As to the melting icecaps and glaciers, besides the slight temperature increases a lot of that could be caused by particulates like soot that were burned decades ago and entered the atmosphere. Once this soot falls onto the glacier, it's dark color traps more heat and causes more melting. Since power plants are much much cleaner now and particulate emissions have dropped considerably in the last 4 or 5 decades, I would think that this phenomenon will slow down over time as soot gets removed from glacier surfaces.

ahh good tara vey nice indeed thanks for sharing your info about "resieding" ice caps that too puzzeled me, but no more! tara, i wish you were the media. lol rep ++ to you!

From: kingarabian
New laws are now made to crack down on CFC's….still though, There is atleast 2 billion fridges, all building's have air conditioning, and theres even more spray cans. Those big companies dont give a shit about global warming…

miight i remind you that alot of gases like the ones found in friges are comonly dirived from the air? and sea. alot that all those friges might take 2 qubic feet 4 billion cubic feet? that's bearly 1000 sq feet of lands air oh , im also going to (attemt to calc the total mount of cubic air on earth. heh heh heh

oh it's 14,306,583,467,774,642,200,000,000 (fourteen point 3 octillion) hah beat that sucka, btw feal free to do the math, see how close i am! or or in other words :
14,306 sextillion,
14,306,583 quintillion
14,306,583,467 quadrillion
or 14,306,583,467,774 trillion
or best yet

14,306,583,467,774,642 billion

square feet of air. i doubt we will ever polute that much air.
have i pushed you to understand how freaking huge of numbers that is?!
cause 14.3 octillion just doesn't sound big enough

also that's 2,384,430,577,962. square feet of air, per person

New laws are now made to crack down on CFC's….still though, There is atleast 2 billion fridges, all building's have air conditioning, and theres even more spray cans. Those big companies dont give a shit about global warming…

From: malotthouse
although its not a significant amount of change, it will add up. kindof like multiplying 2s

1-pretty small number
2-still small
4
8
16
32
64-getting larger
128
256
512
1024. wow. look it got huge. all of the sudden. but the problem was the beginning. exactly like global warming. we need to stop it now. not in 10 years. not in 100 years. now.

i can see what you're saying but i think people are over-estimating the effects it will have. Like that it will melt the icecaps in 5 years and that the entire earth will be underwater. I seriously doubt a lot of the theories people have.

From: Dan Cardin
i can see what you're saying but i think people are over-estimating the effects it will have. Like that it will melt the icecaps in 5 years and that the entire earth will be underwater. I seriously doubt a lot of the theories people have.

lol… I just love you all.. It's amazing how many scientists and experts in climate change we have on these boards..

You obviously doubt all of this because you have had full access to all the data, the experience, maturity and are an expert in the field of climate change?

You doubt the evidence from the vast bulk of the scientific community that the climate is changing due to human factors and prefer to listen to the minority view of a few scientists.

You prefer to sit on you butt and do nothing because acting may mean that you have to actually do something productive.

The FACT remains that the evidence is growing and more and more of the previous sceptics are begining to acknowledge that human influenced global warming is a reality. O.K. It's not 100% of the scientific community that believe just the vast majority.

as I always say.. Do nothing wait and see and if your wrong we are all knackered.. Do what we can now to avert disaster and if we are wrong at least we have cleaner air and a healthier enviroment.

the funny thing is, there are a lot of people who are saying "experts" have said that global warming exists and is happening, however many people do not know that their "expertise" is not the climate of the earth…

I am not basing this on any hard evidence so dont jump down my throat if im wrong…but I read somewhere that the actual climate experts say that global warming is being blown out of proportion. As was stated in the first post, it is looking more like an "earth cycle".

I believe as I always have, that the media traps too many people with their "facts". In the last 5 years there have been several "world wide threats" of disease that could wipe out the world. Anthrax was such a huge concern for the longest time as well, I dont think anthrax is "gone" it is just out of the media, because they got their stories and left it behind…just like every "upcoming world disaster".

Global warming is probably real, just like disease, and just like the other dangerous things around the world. However it most likely is blown out of proportion and will blow over after the media gets bored of it, or if Al Gore is shot lol.

Whether it is real or not, the human race is too stubborn to do anything about it. Its just like any environmental group…they bitch and moan until we budge a little bit, but in the end they really dont get anything big accomplished. The earth will go down in flames before we decide as a species that we need to change our ways. It is sad but true.

The fearmongering being peddled over Global Warming isn't science. Science has agreed up standards of confidence. Go look at any scientific paper, and you will see that the normal standard for "statistical significance" is 5%. In other words, you need to be 95% confident that your conclusion is correct in order for other scientists to accept it as credible.

Now go look at the global warming report. 5 years ago they had a 66% confidence level that human were A factor (not even the major factor). Now it's still below that agreed upon 95% level (again, just being A factor). How is that science?

When scientists throw out all scientific rules to try to browbeat something into the general public, I think it's reasonable to be skeptical about it.

Also remember that these conclusions were being made before extreme COOLING in 2007 wiped out all the warming measured in the 20th century.

I guarantee you that NONE of the models being used by these scientists to predict catastrophe can predict or even survive the challenge of 2007's cooling. So they have two choices. They either throw out the models and start over, or they simply IGNORE the data that doesn't fit with their pre-conceived conclusions. An honest scientist would throw out the model. Personally, I doubt all these people that have now made careers over scaring people with their models are going to give up on them so easily.

Now that I'm sober and actually understanding everything being said on this topic :p…

From: PriSoner
lol… I just love you all.. It's amazing how many scientists and experts in climate change we have on these boards..

You obviously doubt all of this because you have had full access to all the data, the experience, maturity and are an expert in the field of climate change?

You doubt the evidence from the vast bulk of the scientific community that the climate is changing due to human factors and prefer to listen to the minority view of a few scientists.

You prefer to sit on you butt and do nothing because acting may mean that you have to actually do something productive.

The FACT remains that the evidence is growing and more and more of the previous sceptics are begining to acknowledge that human influenced global warming is a reality. O.K. It's not 100% of the scientific community that believe just the vast majority.

as I always say.. Do nothing wait and see and if your wrong we are all knackered.. Do what we can now to avert disaster and if we are wrong at least we have cleaner air and a healthier enviroment.

Nicely said! That's pretty much how I feel as well. Rep++ to you!

From: tarajunky
As to the melting icecaps and glaciers, besides the slight temperature increases a lot of that could be caused by particulates like soot that were burned decades ago and entered the atmosphere. Once this soot falls onto the glacier, it's dark color traps more heat and causes more melting. Since power plants are much much cleaner now and particulate emissions have dropped considerably in the last 4 or 5 decades, I would think that this phenomenon will slow down over time as soot gets removed from glacier surfaces.

Good point, I forgot about that! Thanks for clearing it up a bit for me…but I still believe global warming has something….even just a tiny tiny bit…to do with it as well.

From: red eyes 20
that smog is probably the haze in your eyes from a hang over. really if your drunk just proves that the ill-brained people believe in "global warm" stop listening the the media, get your hands dirty learn a little truth.

I can tell you've never drank before lol. First off, I don't get hangovers unless I hit my body's limit in under an hour….not a fun morning then. Plus, it's generally a really good idea to sleep off a hangover…which would mean I would never see the sun rise over my city, and thus never see the smog.
So, let's ask this again…why do I see the smog over my city every morning? (Do you see the keyword there? No? It's 'every'…meaning, sober or not, I see the smog).

I've seen alot of "proof" about global warming being true, but way more about it being false.. I can't be fucked to start listing anything, but I still don't believe in this, at all.

From: Windoze

just recently a group called Earth Liberation Front (E.L.F) burnt down new mansions due to the amount of energy it would cost to maintain such extravagant houses.

What hypocrytes… burning down the mansion gives off plenty of all that carbon (di/mon?)oxide that the Earth's atmospheres LOVES!

yeah korbman i was just being adhomien about you drinking, that's all, but the fact is the smog is probably .000001 percent of the earths air.

also

"you doubt the evidence from the vast bulk of the scientific community that the climate is changing due to human factors and prefer to listen to the minority view of a few scientists."

ah! this is my favorite part buddy! you think most ph.d's believe in global warming? no! as i said educated people do not agree with global warming.
about 2,000 ph.d studied global warming and though it was true, how ever 7,000 other dissagree and 10,000 more ontop of that with just simlilar education so it's 17k vs 2k. heh. the media just doesn't point out the 17,000 ph.d's

first of all al gore just wants antention.

second point is a few days ago at the points where they take the temps, the temp had acually gone DOWN.

thrid point is in the 70's they said right now we would be in the ice age.

global warming = bs.

We are still technically in an ice age/interglacial because our polar ice caps are still frozen. In my opinion global warming is a peace of sh*t. I think it's just earth's natural way of warming back up. You may say "oh no! a rare flower is about to get extinct because of global warming!!!". Think of all the things that died after the coldest part of the ice age when things were getting warmer again. Some things will die but it's been happening slowly since we started to come out of the ice age.

From: oliver1205
thrid point is in the 70's they said right now we would be in the ice age.

Yes, let's throw global cooling into this chaos…

From: bullzeye95
Yes, let's throw global cooling into this chaos…

either your being sarcastic or misunderstood.

are we in an ice age right now? no. but in the 70's they made a huge deal about it