SRL Archive - Archive

As most of you have noticed, or even if your un-aware and now with elementalelfs new post, about prejudice and following ect. I think we should conduct and experiment *Extra Credit for my Psychology class too perhaps?* Anyways, I've been thinking about PMing the Admins and some people I could trust on this but now that I'm in a more secluded group of people I trust *most of you anyways* I think it would be easier to post it here.

I think we should have someone, maybe a Dev / Admin / Anyone SSRL make a new account, post a few times talk / ect. and Apply for SRL Members with an under - par script, not anything really really bad but not SRL Members worthy. I think we should not post on this but just observe the reaction of the SRL Members community and how they deal with this, how they vote if they vote yes / no, feedback ,ect. Then… before we reveal to them that this was a test I think someone should apply with another account that has another ok, script but have Fawki, Yohojo, RAM, someone post something very positive about the person and see what happens then with the SRL Members Community. After the voting is done, we tell them that this was part of an experiment and give them our results, ect. I'm just curious to see how both situations would pan out.

Sounds like a good idea

I was thinking of doing something similar, almost identical a few months back, just submit an under-par script without any interference from people whom know about the plot.

I'm up for it, I could modify my vem miner that I never finished with bad standards, useless loops, time wasting and using poor methods rather than using ones available in SRL, that way we could do this in 3-4 hours if everyone else is ok with it.

Would be very interesting.

Not sure if it should be announced; isn't it kind of hypocritical: 'No duplicate accounts' - 'Oh, yeah, we made a second account because….'?

From: Smartzkid
Would be very interesting.

Not sure if it should be announced; isn't it kind of hypocritical: 'No duplicate accounts' - 'Oh, yeah, we made a second account because….'?

I think he means with admins approval, that rule is basically to stop ban/punishment evasion as far as I know.

From: Smartzkid
Would be very interesting.

Not sure if it should be announced; isn't it kind of hypocritical: 'No duplicate accounts' - 'Oh, yeah, we made a second account because….'?

Because we're doing a test to figure out the mindset of the community, sounds acceptable to me

I wouldn't think that the admins would have a problem with it but I'd wait to start until we get someone to post here. Also we'd have to wait at least 1 week with the account so they wouldn't look at longevity and be suspicious.

I think after the experiment "Maybe" we should develop a guide to voting. I was working on one, but I think the input on this experiment and the input of some higher - ups would create a much better guide.

If anyone would like to work on an Official Guide with me or has started on one and would like some help I think we should work on creating one. Just posting suggestions or Guide lines that you follow when voting and having someone compiling them into a Tutorial would probably be the best approach if anyone is interested.

great ideas now get the admins to bend that rule for you to do it :p.

i think it would work.

I'll be the under par appliers :)

This should be fun.

An admin with access to the database could always change the account creation date so longevity isn't an issue. (I think?)

Anyways I think this sounds like a good idea.

I'm glad everyone agrees with it, any ideas though on what to make for a script? And who wants to make it or should we just all pitch in and make a little something, I'm sure I got pieces of scripts somewhere we could use.

A Script that logs you in and clicks randomly 'N' 'E' 'S' 'W'….

then hits an infinite loop :p


or no script at all XD

Good idea IMO.

I also think that sometimes people agree with others without putting in thought themselves. This annoys me.

What pisses me off just as much/more, is others saying this happens more often than it does. For example, A says to B,'youre just agreeing with him cuz hes an admin', but the agreeing could just because B and the admin came to the same conclusion, because its a smart one. This experiment should lessen the 'bad' agreeing, and give more credit to the 'good' agreeing, shutting up the A's.

So if I understand correctly, the proposal is this?
Somebody makes a second account, that the mods and admins are made aware of to not ban.
They make some posts to get into Juniors, not great ones, but not so bad so that when they apply for members they won't even be considered.
They apply for members, with an sub par script that isn't so bad that you can see its bad just by glancing. IE at least some standards, includes SRL, the obvious stuff.
Then somebody else makes a positive comment that is specific enough so that it can be disproved/disagreed with by reading the script.
We see how the app goes.

From: The Claw
Sounds like a good idea

I don't like the idea, really, it can only do harm; especially when you reveal it.
What is it exactly that you want to find out?
That members might 'follow' eachother in decisions?
Everyone 'follows' on and reacts on persons, and I have no doubt in my mind that some members might more easily post 'yes' if I would make a first reaction in it with yes, although I hardly beleive it could be so strong a 'noob' could get it.

Taking mat de b as an example, he made a good script, he got in.
hermpie, he didn't get in, and I think thats fair, although he tries very hard, his script just wasn't good enough.

My point being?
I very rarely see applicants (on which I did or did not post my opinion) get in or rejected for bad reasons, I think the Members are actually doing a great job.

~ Wizzup?

Sounds good, maybe not do exactly this but i see your point.
Iv (and iv seen others with authority) completely turn around pools from like 10-0 to 10-18 by posting a very elaborate examination of the script. I think others rely too much on what other people post instead of actually looking. I was just thinking to fix this hide all replies on apps from the public. Only let mods and devs and the applyer be able to see the posts, so everyones opinion will be truly theirs instead of any receiving any bias from others.

@ Dark - No… thats just way too obvious.

@ Boreas - Yes that is the basic premises of the experiment, but I'd like to see what would happen if no, admins, mods, or people with influence, voted on it, if it was just the general SRL Members. I was saying though that maybe we could run a second experiment possibly with a post by someone with authority / influence over the masses, and see what happens then.

@ Wizzup? - Yes I see your point of it too, and I get that you don't want to start any arguments or create any unwanted drama within SRL, and I can respect that. But think of this, if you've ever had a friend who works at a gas station or have ever talked to someone who has, they may tell you about a "sting" that happens every once in a while. A sting (for those of you who don't know) is normally when someone(undercover) goes into the grocery store / gas station and tries to buy cigarette's / alcohol and they're underage. Companies do this to check and see if their employees are watching / scanning peoples ID's to make sure they're old enough to purchase said object. Normally from people I've talked to, their managers / boss or whatever tells them about a week or two in advanced that there will be a sting, just to keep the employees on their toes. Possibly if you wouldn't mind we could tell them that the admins / you are going to set up an application sting, and possibly explain the situation. Then we'd wait a week or so and apply with the account. This would dismiss all arguments it may cause and still would supply us with results, as well as get everyone who votes to be more thorough in their voting. This is just my compromise to your opinions, and I hope you'll at least consider it.

@ Yohojo - That sounds like a great idea actually, making it so that you can't see other's posts, but then again, maybe someone caught something bad that you didn't notice and you vote yes without realizing its a poor script.

From: Special Ed
@ Wizzup? - Yes I see your point of it too, and I get that you don't want to start any arguments or create any unwanted drama within SRL, and I can respect that. But think of this, if you've ever had a friend who works at a gas station or have ever talked to someone who has, they may tell you about a "sting" that happens every once in a while. A sting (for those of you who don't know) is normally when someone(undercover) goes into the grocery store / gas station and tries to buy cigarette's / alcohol and they're underage. Companies do this to check and see if their employees are watching / scanning peoples ID's to make sure they're old enough to purchase said object. Normally from people I've talked to, their managers / boss or whatever tells them about a week or two in advanced that there will be a sting, just to keep the employees on their toes. Possibly if you wouldn't mind we could tell them that the admins / you are going to set up an application sting, and possibly explain the situation. Then we'd wait a week or so and apply with the account. This would dismiss all arguments it may cause and still would supply us with results, as well as get everyone who votes to be more thorough in their voting. This is just my compromise to your opinions, and I hope you'll at least consider it.

I understand your point, but I don't really agree.
A company differs from SRL in quite a few ways.
We all have 'camera's in the store (we can ALL see the applications), so we don't really need a spy, just judge on what you see, and what you would have given the appliant.

I just don't like the idea, it's like spy'ing.
It's just that I don't see the use for it now, since most (all) apps are going correctly, and if anyone is being rude / wrong,
others correct them in a nice way.

Thats how I like too see it!

A good discussion about a application / appliant is good IMO, it helps the appliants alot, too.

Another point is, I'm a 99,9999999999% percent sure you cannot keep it a secret.
If you aren't willing to make it a secret at all, then I'd totally disagree,
the whole idea of a spy is bad for the morale.

Even though it's only for once.

~Wizzup? :)

I guess I can see what your saying, maybe I'm just too harsh of a grader… Oh well It was an idea, but I don't want to offend anyone and your probably right it would hurt morale, and that would be very bad seeing as how things are going ATM.

Another point is, I'm a 99,9999999999% percent sure you cannot keep it a secret.

That was not directed at you, BTW.
It's just that you can't really keep things a secret in cheating communties.

I didn't think you where directing it at me, but I do see your point, the only reason I have to argue against that is that this is SSRL, do I thought that this being a little more sophisticated of a place we'd be able to keep a secret.

EDIT: I just realized that I posted this in the wrong section, guess my browser didn't switch fast enough or something, lol :p but I don't think anyone else noticed either.

I have to disagree Wizzy, though I do see your point.

IF we can keep it a secret, this might reveal that members do follow admins…or even vote blindly.

And even if we all ready know the outcome…this will still be interesting.

See Wizzup? I'm not trying to pin you as a minority in this suggestion but the majority of people who have responded think that it would be quite interesting to run this experiment, also it would help people learn how to vote on applications better by showing them that "This script" is not acceptable for SRL Members. I do see why you say what you do, and "I think" is because you want to try to sustain the environment of SRL Members, but honestly I'm trying to improve it rather than sustain. I know you do want the best for SRL (at least I hope you do) but I think that working to improve it rather than to just keep it the way it is would be a better path to follow.

I know you, and a lot of the Dev's and Admins are very busy working on a variety of things, but when those things are finished (or if you'd like to take a break) I think a complete revamp / cleanup of the forums / website is needed, although Dankness is a big part of this due to him actually owning the site (He does own this domain right?).

I'm not saying your wrong or your right, but I am trying to show you why I think the way I do, and one of the reason I do is because I want to see SRL prosper. I've have a lot of bad experiences with Forums / Guilds / Groups and I don't want to see SRL turn out like them.

if the results hurt the community in any way do not release the results.

we could tell them to be more/less strict….



not everything needs to be public… especially if it harms the community right :p.



but i like the test idea :p

I don't really like this idea…obviously, somebody is going to get signaled out for the posts they made…good or bad…and some people will undoubtedly feel betrayed…I know I would…

I have voiced my opinion lately though…that people need to give constructive criticism before casting their vote, and see if the applicant takes it…

I am aware the influence Admins/Mods can have over people….but we were elected to represent the best interests of the community… I never have felt to qualified to judge someone else's application, but I consider myself a good judge of character….

There was a reason I held my vote until the end on B2C's last app ;)…unfortunately my suspicions were correct :(

$.02 ~ RAM

EDIT: One thing I might propose…is to not make the polls anonymous anymore….. everyone can see who voted and if you vote, it is mandatory to state your reason's why…. I have no problem with the hate mail I receive already ;)

Ohh. Or how about all the other post/votes are hidden from the voter until he/she votes and posts a good reason :)

I see what you're saying RAM, and thats what Wizzup? has been saying too, and I know your probably right, so we should probably just forgo the experiment. I don't want to hurt this community in any way I'm just trying to help it and I hope you all can see that I only want the best for SRL.

But in any case, experiment or not, would anyone like to consider Writing a collaborative guide about some things to look for in SRL Member applications. Seeing as how SSRL means that you are a bit above an beyond, I was thinking that most of us would have more experience in voting. So possibly we could bring together some ideas to write a guide about things to look for in a good SRL Member, and we could post it in SRL Members for everyone to read. That way no one feels betrayed but we can still get the Members to "up" their judgment on Applications.

dont worry special i got a secret weapon!

the admins cannot refuse us now!

cause:






















XD ahahahaha i had to use that!

Dark, you kinda closed the topic with that pic. ;)

I personally think some members are only voting just to keep other junior's out.

The Scar Noob, for example. He's much to severe.
I think we should be more easy on members, because:

- They definately differ from the leechers. they learn, they try to apply.
- As ad addition on my previous statement: If leechers apply, it will definately be with a copied script, or a 5 lined autotalker.
- We always need more members.
- I've found quite some posts a bit rude / harsh, you should not tell them they are 'noob', just inform them what they did wrong, and support them, say something nice.

~ Wizzup?

No!

Better you use your own power to influence public opinion. Take for instance the poll about King of Knives. A perfectly fine script by an eager youngster working to his best ability to get in.

Well, as SSRL's you should use your voice and post in that poll. Its not only about the script, but the general impression someone leaves behind that counts far more severe than a script.

It a bad idea.

Ok, ok… I see the point that you've made, but does anyone have any opinions on the guide? Also Fakawi… I know your you, and I really don't have much of a say in how the forums are run, but I think that Members should be harder to get into. I always thought that you had to be an excellent and reasonably unrivaled scripter to become an SRL Member and over the time I've spent here I've learned that to be false. As of now you just need to have a basic understanding of multi - player, SRL, and fail safes to get in, nothing really special. I don't know how SRL Members was envisioned but this is how I though it was, I see now that SSRL Members are more what I thought SRL Members where so I guess I'm ok there.

If you truly just think this is a horrible idea, can you just lock / delete this thread so we don't get anyone grave digging / bringing up old issues. I just suggested this as an idea and its progressively turned against me, and it seems some of the people who are against it think of me as bad as they do this idea.

Sorry, I didnt have time to read through all the comment given. It boils down to this: Trust.

This plan will surely leak, like all things leak. This will lead to a feeling of distrust in board management, and I dont want that to happen.

It happens on an extensive scale amongst registrees, I bet ronny m.p. or NeonKnight77 are already long back under a new name, but I dont want this to radiate to Seniors/Dev/Mod/Admins. We would be giving the wrong example.

Besides: still only a few hundred are Member, 31k registrees. Its not out of balance IMHO.

Also, remember that what may look like a simple script to you, is usually the result of someone working real hard to get in, learning Pascal, studying scripts, tuts and consulting others. Once again: use your social skills, not your technical skills. A forum with silent brilliant scripters is still a dead forum.

Good point, and well made.

This is why SRL is so different (thats in a good way folks) from other communities. Fakawi is here to make sure everything runs the right way :)

I see what you are saying, and I do understand. Also that it probably why SRL is such a great community and I agree with you Ruroken, SRL is a great community and Fakawi does do a great job of keeping it that way, along with all of the other SRL staff although some of them aren't as noticeable.

The simple solution to the secrecy problem is to have one [slightly insane person for the multi personalty thing, like me for instance] do both the script and the comment, unannounced to the rest of us. That way, the only person that would know is the person doing it. I don't see it as a trust problem at all, its simply someone trying to do a psychology study, and they need someone to play along :)

From: BenLand100
The simple solution to the secrecy problem is to have one [slightly insane person for the multi personalty thing, like me for instance] do both the script and the comment, unannounced to the rest of us. That way, the only person that would know is the person doing it. I don't see it as a trust problem at all, its simply someone trying to do a psychology study, and they need someone to play along :)

Thats the point I was trying to get at but seeing as how much of a problem it would be if it did leak out we were doing this, it would create some serious issues, unless we could get the community to understand. Also I was thinking about doing this for my Psychology report in school if we ever did it, although the deadline for the report is Oct 2nd so unless we do it by then it doesn't necissarily benefit me as much although it will still be good to understand what the community is thinking.

According to my readings it is perfectly ethical according to the APA guidelines for ethical experimentation, other than the fact that you can't keep the peoples comments confidential.

seince when was the APA a good ethical guidline!!! rofl!!!

enough said.

APA is the worldwide guild line for psychological experimentation.

GregGreg please check your facts before posting something like this… I find it somewhat demeaning and offensive posting a "bash" like that when you don't know what your talking about *or at least to my understanding you are misunderstanding something*. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as "harsh" but I just took a 50 question test in Adv Psychology about APA guide lines and what APA is, and personally I can't stand people talking like they know about something when clearly they do not. (not just saying you but people in general, even if Fakawi or another Admin were to)

From: Special Ed
APA is the worldwide guild line for psychological experimentation.

GregGreg please check your facts before posting something like this… I find it somewhat demeaning and offensive posting a "bash" like that when you don't know what your talking about *or at least to my understanding you are misunderstanding something*. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as "harsh" but I just took a 50 question test in Adv Psychology about APA guide lines and what APA is, and personally I can't stand people talking like they know about something when clearly they do not. (not just saying you but people in general, even if Fakawi or another Admin were to)

Sorry Specail, It was not meant as a bash on you. I know the APA seems to mean well, but the fact is that they are just a group of people, with human tendancies. I belive that no true moral set can come from any group of people, because no one is good enough.

Specially when it turns into an organisation, I tend to associate that word with coruption.

Look at the APA's history, they are as biased, hypocrtical, as the average human.

Not to mention that I have a very strong personal opinion that phycology is really just a legal way to get people adicated to drugs and take their money for the rest of their life.

Anyhow, this is offtopic, I dont mind discussing it more, but lets do it in IM's