SRL Archive - News and General

ok, please note some things before i start:

-most of these traits are seen in basically all internet communities, this one not being an exception.
-regardless of anything written below, this is still easily the best RS cheating community i have been in since OGLabs.

Anyways, from my insofar, short stay here, i have seen a few things which i believe i should probably remark upon.
most of these things can be attributed merely to the "superhero" tendancy.
im guessing that most people on this forum, and im probably right in saying so, are the classical smart kid. i had a look through the pictures thread, and it seems to support this statement. most of the members are young, skinny, pale kids. i define young as being between 11-16.
this is fine for the most part, you are easily the most intelligent 11-16 year olds i have ever seen. if any school teacher could comprehend what you do here, they would realise as much too.
however you still have the same characteristics of the smart kid.
you are insecure, however you try to exude understanding, but at the same time, assumed superiority of ranks below you, whether you try to or not.

Anyways, onto the superhero tendancy.
from ages 6-12, and sometimes above, kids like you all watch cartoons, you were probably no different. cartoons follow a fairly rigid structure, that is, there is a protagonist, and an antagonist. the protagonist usually is in a continual, seemingly never-ending fight with the antagonist, however the protagonist always seems to come out on top.

since being weened off cartoons, and entering runescape cheating, you have had a cultural shock, regardless of whether you understand whats happening or not(i suspect most, if not all of you are completely unaware that this is happening) the cultural shock being that you now, instead of having one, clearly defined protagonist, have many MANY different protagonists to choose from, in the form of communities, i.e. moparisthebest, sythe, SRL, rscheata etc etc.
that doesnt necessarily mean that you will follow one community at the exclusion of all else, however you will probably assume the same moral attitudes and values as the leader of the community(in this case, the dev's, and admins, and ram_rune)
this does not mean that you attempt to completely emulate their personality, however it does mean that if, for example, fawaki decides to ban someone for a personal reason, or a reason that is not made public, you will all immediately side with fawaki, as you instinctivly know that he has done it for a good reason.

in short, the runescape community in general, and its leaders in particular, have become parents to your "internet" personalities in the same way that your real parents bestow their values on you as a part of your "Real life" personality.

i will put an example here:
before coming to this community, whether you will admit it or not, i am willing to bet that almost all of you had absolutely no inclination to shun java bots. now that you are in this community, whos mantra seems to be "we cheat, but not with java" almost all of you(with the exception of the KYAB crew) suddenly change your opinion from indifferent apathy, to abhorrence of any java cheating device

This would not be so much of a problem in a perfect society, however no society is perfect, and therefore, this system can be abused to the extreme.

i am not, in any way, shape, or form, accusing any admins or mods of deliberately attempting to waylay the youngin's here, however as you are fairly young kids yourselves, you do not have completely developed senses of morality etc.


the point im trying to make is:
Blind faith != success.

and most members here have the problem of blind faith to some degree. even if you honestly believe that you dont.


thank you.

Great post, I agree with you 100%. How old are you btw? Just wondering.

But yer I have noticed what you're talking about. It's true, a lot of users here would be shunned out of everyday life, most of us would be insecure about themselves etc etc, but I geuss that just comes with being super smart (there are exceptions: for example, me and a lot of others ;)).

the result of this is that yeah, the majority automatically become prejudiced, or take sides, agaisnt whatever it may be, eg java bots, like you said. another example of this is the voting for new members, which i made a post about in this forum - instead of making their own decisions, a lot of people just go along with the first person who voted, 90% of the time "for the reasons posted above". this would be a direct reflection on the personal life of the user - instead of "making waves", voicing their opinion and going agaisnt the crowd, they just go with the majority.

your example of java is very true, also. i mean, progress is progress correct? a lot of the members here have become so agaisnt java, after the kyab incident, and the only reason that i can think of is because of the admins decisions, and posts. when in actual fact, the reason fawki, wizzup, boreas etc were agaisnt kyab is a lot more to it than just being java, a lot more than most people realise, except the people go along with the idea of hating kyab just because the admins do (not saying that the admins hate kyab or anything, maybe some do mayve some dont, so dont quote me…its just an example how people just follow the authoritys opinion).

at the end of the day though, i guess everyone went through that stage at some time in their life. the fact that its a runescape orientated forum basiaclly means that there will be a lot of younger people around, simply because runescape attracts a young audience. rarely will there be someone who will voice their opinions openly, if they are agaisnt the views of admins, mods or devs, and whether or not thats because the people like the illusion of being protected by authorites on the net, or being cared for or whatever. but yer, there are a lot of these type of people here, more than at any other forum ive been at (rs, or non rs) but honestly theres not much anyone except them can do about it.

I agree with you both that a lot of members do follow the admins but not all of them, and you are talking about them being young a smart well to an extent but not everyone there is information on this forum that if you really wanted to do it it would show you how. And most of the people who play RS are young so that is why this forum and loads of other RS cheating forms are full of smart young kids.

Lovely post. Rep++ to you Elf.

Believe me, there are members that agree with everything that admins say, in every community. It will always be like that.

I make my own opinions, sometimes they are same as admin's, sometimes they aren't. I usually say my opinion and sometimes it just begins huge flame war, or I get marked as 'Rebel'.
Anyways, everyone should have their own opinions. They can be same as someone else's, but don't just follow everybody blindly. Try to make difference.

From: The Claw
Great post, I agree with you 100%. How old are you btw? Just wondering.

i am 17

But yer I have noticed what you're talking about. It's true, a lot of users here would be shunned out of everyday life, most of us would be insecure about themselves etc etc, but I geuss that just comes with being super smart

i see an inconsistency here

most of us would be insecure about themselves

im not sure if you are implying that you are insecure as well, or if you are not

(there are exceptions: for example, me and a lot of others ;)).

again, im not sure i understand you, are you saying that you are exceptional because you are not smart, or because you are not insecure?
regardless, i would beg to differ on both occasions :) not for any other reason then your post count… it indicates that you spend a fair amount of time on these forums, which, in itself, indicates a feeling of safety here, remember that i am not accusing you of being insecure, for all i know you have a fetish for runescape cheating sites

the result of this is that yeah, the majority automatically become prejudiced, or take sides, agaisnt whatever it may be, eg java bots, like you said. another example of this is the voting for new members, which i made a post about in this forum - instead of making their own decisions, a lot of people just go along with the first person who voted, 90% of the time "for the reasons posted above". this would be a direct reflection on the personal life of the user - instead of "making waves", voicing their opinion and going agaisnt the crowd, they just go with the majority.

the problem with this is that eventually you will get so many people making waves that in the end, it will become much like the hippy movement in the 1960-70's, i.e. an entire generational rebellion(although generations of scripters tend to be alot shorter then that of humans) ending in probably a total upheval(sorry, i lost my spell check) of viewpoints. i.e. communities will go from the now, conservative right wingers(i.e. fakawi) who like things the way they are, and prefer evolution over revolution to extreme left wing, which, in the case of runescape cheating, will probably end in alot of prototype bots being released with nothing really very stable…

your example of java is very true, also. i mean, progress is progress correct? a lot of the members here have become so agaisnt java, after the kyab incident, and the only reason that i can think of is because of the admins decisions, and posts. when in actual fact, the reason fawki, wizzup, boreas etc were agaisnt kyab is a lot more to it than just being java, a lot more than most people realise, except the people go along with the idea of hating kyab just because the admins do (not saying that the admins hate kyab or anything, maybe some do mayve some dont, so dont quote me…its just an example how people just follow the authoritys opinion).

at the end of the day though, i guess everyone went through that stage at some time in their life. the fact that its a runescape orientated forum basiaclly means that there will be a lot of younger people around, simply because runescape attracts a young audience. rarely will there be someone who will voice their opinions openly, if they are agaisnt the views of admins, mods or devs, and whether or not thats because the people like the illusion of being protected by authorites on the net, or being cared for or whatever. but yer, there are a lot of these type of people here, more than at any other forum ive been at (rs, or non rs) but honestly theres not much anyone except them can do about it.

in life, there are many stages of political/social views, they usually go like this:
0-10 apathy/ignorance
11-13/14 - naive right wing(takes parents opinions, however does not understand the reasons behind them)
15-23 - goes slowly from right wing to left wing… naturally, this coincides with the "teenage rebellion" period, by the time they hit 23, they are generally very left wing orientated.
24-30 - identity finding: mostly in this stage people are fairly neutral to either one or the other wings(conservative vs radical) however they are usually trying to decide their own morales.
30+ - usually these tend to be fairly conservative.

this is actually where the problem lies… suddenly, the 11-16 year olds have a 41-2(sorry fakawi, cant remember your age, but i know its somewhere around there :) )role model, who, as one would assume, is fairly right wing, especially when it comes to runescape cheating…

i just lost my train of thought because of an interesting item on the news… therefore i shall leave it here.

From: elementalelf
i am 17

i see an inconsistency here

most of us would be insecure about themselves

im not sure if you are implying that you are insecure as well, or if you are not


again, im not sure i understand you, are you saying that you are exceptional because you are not smart, or because you are not insecure?
regardless, i would beg to differ on both occasions :) not for any other reason then your post count… it indicates that you spend a fair amount of time on these forums, which, in itself, indicates a feeling of safety here, remember that i am not accusing you of being insecure, for all i know you have a fetish for runescape cheating sites

yup yup i can see what you mean, but remember you dont have to be insecur e to be active on forums, or smart either, it was just a generalisation that in most cases, like you said, the skinny smart pale kid would be insecure, because in most cases they wouldnt fit in with the "popular group" or whatever. what i meant by being an exception was that im not insecure, and i dont fit this generalisation, as im sure a lot of us dont, but even more of us do.

but going by your logic, saying that i seem to be insecure because of post count, i think that post count per day has higher value than overall count. my post count per day is 4.89, whereas yours is 20.55 per day, but tbh i dont see how post count has anything to do with it, whereas the content of our posts do. as in, whether or not we have our own opinions, or just follow the group.;)

the problem with this is that eventually you will get so many people making waves that in the end, it will become much like the hippy movement in the 1960-70's, i.e. an entire generational rebellion(although generations of scripters tend to be alot shorter then that of humans) ending in probably a total upheval(sorry, i lost my spell check) of viewpoints. i.e. communities will go from the now, conservative right wingers(i.e. fakawi) who like things the way they are, and prefer evolution over revolution to extreme left wing, which, in the case of runescape cheating, will probably end in alot of prototype bots being released with nothing really very stable…

not nessecariliy, but i can see where you're coming from. what i meant was, it seems that everyone is just agreeing with everything thats posted by an authority, or even just a normal member. whether or not this is because the authority is always right or whatever, but often its opinions - it seems that a lot of people here just agree with every opinion, so as to feel like they are fitting in, - this is how it ties in to feeling insecure.

in life, there are many stages of political/social views, they usually go like this:
0-10 apathy/ignorance
11-13/14 - naive right wing(takes parents opinions, however does not understand the reasons behind them)
15-23 - goes slowly from right wing to left wing… naturally, this coincides with the "teenage rebellion" period, by the time they hit 23, they are generally very left wing orientated.
24-30 - identity finding: mostly in this stage people are fairly neutral to either one or the other wings(conservative vs radical) however they are usually trying to decide their own morales.
30+ - usually these tend to be fairly conservative.

this is actually where the problem lies… suddenly, the 11-16 year olds have a 41-2(sorry fakawi, cant remember your age, but i know its somewhere around there :) )role model, who, as one would assume, is fairly right wing, especially when it comes to runescape cheating…

i cant see how having a 42 year old leader would create a problem though. having a leader of the forums old enough to be your dad makes a difference though, because of the common (mis? :D)conception that adults know best, which would have an influence over anyone who knows his age.

All forums have leaders, whether you like it or not. Even worse, forums without leaders, or people that show no leadership quickly become a nightmare, especially when the forum is engaged in against-the-rules activities such as cheating and is attactive to young people. I have carefully laid out the rules of this forum avoiding conflicts and staying in touch with other cheating forums in peacefull coexistence. As you have noticed, I ask nothing more then respect, normal ethical behaviour and do not wish to get involved into profitable activities. That keeps the Devil outside. This will appeal to some, but not to all and I am perfectly fine with that, since SRL has always stayed calm and compared to most cheating boards is of a fairly high communicational level.

The main reason for the strictness of rejection of the java-bots is plain and simple: Kaitnieks. Kaitnieks went down because jagex thought java-client Aryan sprouted from that board. Jagex lawyers poundered with threatmails at Kaitnieks door, causing him to freak out and leave the scene.

I have never tried to actively influence any of your opinions. I do not take part in discussions, other then rs-related ones. I understand that from a Darwinistic view, I am the one to look up to. Therefore I try to choose my words carefully, and very rarely you will find an impulsive response. The boards conservatism mentioned here is only valid for Ye-Olde-Color-Clickery-SCAR, in real life I am an Atheistic Anarchistic Hippy, but I do not advertise that as my opinions are rather extreme as opposed to conservative.

So, KYAB was rejected because it has potential to render SRL useless, is developed by some of the not-so-trusted and is java based. This does not mean that I am not interested in KYAB, on the contrary, I am a member of their forum too, but I simply do not want the Eye of Sauron focussed on SRL.

In short, yes you are right elf, I too have difficulties with this Godlike status. I encourage everyone to make up their own minds as opposed to Follow-The-Leader kinda behaviour (sooo… flock!), but if our paths accidentally coincide, ride along with me. I have nothing to offer except for my own personal view on rs-cheating and maybe just a little education here and there, but only on matters of programming, the human spirit and moral.

Yes, i see what you mean by saying that you are very left wing in your political views, you seem to be almost extremist :P
the claw: the problem with having a 42 year old leader is that as he is usually the person that the other members try to emulate, they will try to emulate views that are not typical of their age group, and therefore eventually lead to them being ostrasized(note, this is a bit extreme, but you see where im heading).
WT-Fakawi, i am not accusing you of doing anything wrong, which i think i tried to make clear in my first post, and whilst im extra-ordinarily happy that you decided to voice your opinion(which, it seems, you do very rarely) in this thread, it does not denote from the fact that with there being such a huge difference in contextual views, be they social, economical, cultural etc etc. between leader and followers, the followers may start doing it for all the wrong reasons.

the claw:

but going by your logic, saying that i seem to be insecure because of post count, i think that post count per day has higher value than overall count. my post count per day is 4.89, whereas yours is 20.55 per day, but tbh i dont see how post count has anything to do with it, whereas the content of our posts do. as in, whether or not we have our own opinions, or just follow the group.

I am quite aware of my own insecurities, and im very secure about them, therefore, i have no concievable insecurities(it'll be a little hard to understand exactly what im saying).
also, i am a bit of an anomoly in this situation, thanks to a mental disorder i have called Asperger syndrome, whereby i, to put it simply, have a very limited emotional spectrum, amongst other things.
edit: if this is anything to go by, asperger syndrome is often referred to as "higher functioning autism", im sure most of you know what autism is

because of this, i am probably the most objective observer you are ever likely to meet when it comes to runescape cheating communities. anybody who actually gets to know runescape cheating communities, tend to take sides, unless, like me, you have something which automatically excludes you from taking sides.

edit: adding more in:
WT-Fakawi, i just saw something which made me pause for a second, i re-read your post, and i just realised that you proved my point about you being right wing(at least, on the internet)

The main reason for the strictness of rejection of the java-bots is plain and simple: Kaitnieks. Kaitnieks went down because jagex thought java-client Aryan sprouted from that board. Jagex lawyers poundered with threatmails at Kaitnieks door, causing him to freak out and leave the scene.

this is the epitome of conservative thought, im sorry, im not trying to incense you into arguement, but it would be an injustice to this thread if i didnt voice ALL of my opnion.
conservatives, by nature, do not necessarily abhor change in all ways, but they favour very gradual, tradtional change, as is evident here by SRL, ***where instead of revolutionizing scripting by creating a completely new include*** you evolved older scripts to suit your purpose.
another characteristic of a conservative is that if an idea fails once, or something bad happens, they would rather drop the idea altogether then to make changes to the process of change(i.e. make a different type of java bot, or perhaps make better precautions so it could not be traced to one site).

something interesting just came on the TV again and i lost my train of thought(again).

sorry about my lack of concentration… i have exams tomorrow and ive been studying for the past 12 hours straight.

From: elementalelf

WT-Fakawi, i am not accusing you of doing anything wrong, which i think i tried to make clear in my first post,

I know. I wasnt offended in the least. I get very rarily offended by the internet.

From: elementalelf

the followers may start doing it for all the wrong reasons.

True, but that is very difficult to avoid. I cannot make myself more clear than I already do, besides I am limited since English is not my first language. How would you react in a 30.000-to-1 situation? (bad example in your case). I will exercise even more caution in my Forum affairs and will put more effort into clarifying statements as I have been misinterpreted time and again, though Forum Management does take a considerable amount of my limited time.



EDIT: Conservative in SCAR, true :)

ah yeah, i see what you mean. i think i covered that in my first post in this topic, how people will just go along with his decisions and opinions, but i was thinking they would because hes an authority on this board. would this be part of the reason that you dont post your opinion much Fakawi?

btw, i think ive got mild asperger's as well - my mum works at a school for the mentally disabled kids, the ones with all sorts of problems (autism, add, adhd, psychological) etc and she has had trainging for how to recognize the various disorders. and yer she saya that i have mild asperger's

therein lies the next trap…
aspergers is the new "it" mental disorder.
5 years ago it was ADHD.
im sure alot of the older members here will know what im talking about, a child is playing up, or having trouble with something, or generally acting odd in some way shape or form, so they get shipped off to the doctor.. the doctor, in an attempt to qualify his extortionate fees, diagnoses the child with the "it" mental disorder of the time.

i was diagnosed with both these disorders when i was 4 years old, since then, i take bi-annual trips to sydney(major city near me) to see a specialist.
i am what you would call, a "mild case" and yet i probably show 5-10x the amount of symptons of it then almost anyone on this forum.


i find it ironic that people are making 1 line posts agreeing with me, kinda proves my point doesnt it? :P

santa: sorry mate, im not having a go at you or anything like that, ive already explained why it happened, but to see it happen in this thread is actually pretty damning, evidence wise

fakawi: i would really prefer it, and im sure everyone else would too, if you tried not to mask your opinion for the communities sake, i woud like to remind you that you actually have no responsibilities to anyone, and from your admittedly neo-radical political views, i thought you yourself would be all for teaching kids your views :P

i find it ironic that people are making 1 line posts agreeing with me, kinda proves my point doesnt it? :P

it does indeed, lol.

but personally, i dont see the attraction of having some kind of disorder. the attraction definately does exist, for certain people. its the same sort of thing about how all the celebrities suddenly started going to rehab the other year, for drug problems. someone does it, then all of a sudden everyone does it. hey, maybe they did all have drug problems, who am i to say that they didnt but do you know what i mean? it all comes back to people trying to fit in, i guess?

edit: or standing out? or fitting into a minority, somewhat "exclusive" group, and therefore standing out at the same time as fitting in?

Sorry for the spam, but I'd just like to say that this has been the most interesting thread I have ever read. For reals. ++repz 4 t3h 3lf

I just had my bits flipped :eek:.

I see where you are coming from and going, but I am sadly not the stereotypical nerd, and believe that many people here aren't. Another point is that you think we all want acceptance, but everyone does. It is natural.

However, I do not think that how smart someone is/will be is not from there genes (as many believe), but is standardized throughout the human race, and that there intelligence is developed through the demands their society puts on them. Yes, I do believe in evolving intelligence, but you would need more neurons for any noticeable increase. Lets put it this way: You have a processor (the individual), and you (the society) want it to work faster. Instead of going and creating (Playing God is bad…) another processor, you overclock it, but by the end of the computers life it is worn out and dull (Might happen to people :p).

But, I got off track in my Ideology.

All societies have gods, and, in fact, we are a society. That does not mean developers get sacrifices though.

But it is not bad to follow the system, or rebel against it, but is single minded. Do neither.

Time to get a British (or Scottich or something) accent and go join the MSI group.

Agree with you 100%, especially about the Java thing. Btw, I'm one of the 'KYAB crew', apparently :D

I disagree. I'm not pale :p. Also I think you are being a little stereotypical. Although I agree with you, I don't think people can be judged on how they look, and I was a little confused how the Pale/Skinny thing had anything to do with the post? I also think the whole cartoon thing is a little off. I think that that the whole protagonist/antagonist thing comes from not just cartoons, but media in general, therefor not just effecting your version of young people, but everyone. Which brings me to my next point, I don't like your definition of young people. Young people in my mind, is through your early twenties, while you are still developing. It seems to me that you made the cut-off 16 because you are 17…

Please understand though, that I am not trying to say, "THAT'S NOT TRUE! I AM NOT LIKE THAT AT ALL!" I just think you need to broaden your thinking on this a little bit. Opinions are voiced. Have you seen the arguments? It is true that many people (myself included) take the side of the "protagonist" but how do you know that some of them have their own opinions on the matter, and actually agree with the Admin, Mod, ect. After all this is SRL-Forums, and most people don't like to talk about other stuff other than SRL.

I'm 13, and I see a lot of stuff like this happen all around my school. People do tend to take a different stance online - usually it's because posting on a thread doesn't make you think right off the bat like you would in a conversation. This sort of makes you appear smarter, but I have no doubt that most SRL Members are, as you said "the classical smart kid". There's also less stuff to worry about that's involved with posting on a forum - you don't need to worry about your posture, your facial expression, or (to some extent) a loss of respect (you could just disappear off the face of the earth on the internet). But, like you said, it's just as easy to become the 1 vs 30000 online.

What I like about forums and the online thing is that it's easier, at least to me, to take your own stance. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the differences between school cliques, fights, stereotypes, etc. and the stuff online and on forums. I actually think people are more inclined to stay under somebody's wing and get sucked into a clique at school. There, a lot of conversations have to do with intimidation - I know a kid who's almost 6 feet tall, very athletic, and can almost every time win an argument just because he always has a pack of kids walking behind him. I think if he were on theses forums, he'd have a much harder time gaining respect just because he doesn't have that intimidation factor.

That's just my 2 cents. It's dinnertime now.

Awesome. Just awesome.

I agree! :)

Opinions change to constantly… the beauty of the world is that you see it in a completely different way every time you look at it. I believe the most important thing I've learned in my entire life is that you must always try to remember that.

I am 18, and if Fakawi banned someone, I would still stick behind him. Not because I see him as a superhero, but more of a friend. A friend whos judgement I trust.

Of course there would be a line being crossed if he did something totally uncalled for, and I would question it, but I don't think your theory is neccersarily correct. I would say I agree with you in-part, some users of this forum fit into your categories perfectly (no-one being named) but I don't think its a rigid rule for everybody.

A very nice theory though. Thank you for presenting it, well worth the read.

From: Bourdou
I disagree. I'm not pale :p. Also I think you are being a little stereotypical. Although I agree with you, I don't think people can be judged on how they look, and I was a little confused how the Pale/Skinny thing had anything to do with the post? I also think the whole cartoon thing is a little off. I think that that the whole protagonist/antagonist thing comes from not just cartoons, but media in general, therefor not just effecting your version of young people, but everyone. Which brings me to my next point, I don't like your definition of young people. Young people in my mind, is through your early twenties, while you are still developing. It seems to me that you made the cut-off 16 because you are 17… Please understand though, that I am not trying to say, "THAT'S NOT TRUE! I AM NOT LIKE THAT AT ALL!" I just think you need to broaden your thinking on this a little bit. Opinions are voiced. Have you seen the arguments? It is true that many people (myself included) take the side of the "protagonist" but how do you know that some of them have their own opinions on the matter, and actually agree with the Admin, Mod, ect. After all this is SRL-Forums, and most people don't like to talk about other stuff other than SRL.

I agree with you, not elf.

@Elf, first post: To me that was a completely stereotyped post. Not to say I have not fallen victim to it, and I try not to, but nonetheless you assumed many things and you are what, 1 week here? I don't think you are qualified to be in the judges seat.

Gah i had second post in this thread but then wireless dropped for the night… Anyways…

Fawki doesnt influence people on purpose. He doesnt ban anyone interested in java bots. He just says dont bring it here. Be a member of another community and do it there. You can be part of two communitys :p

But yes. People are sheep and play follow the leader all the time. Cheating is always attractive to young people. We were all young once. And we always want the most pixels when we first start cheating and thats why java bots are so attractive. But you have to remember (boreas's?) sig. " I want people for the journey not the destination"

From: elementalelf

i will put an example here:
before coming to this community, whether you will admit it or not, i am willing to bet that almost all of you had absolutely no inclination to shun java bots. now that you are in this community, whos mantra seems to be "we cheat, but not with java" almost all of you(with the exception of the KYAB crew) suddenly change your opinion from indifferent apathy, to abhorrence of any java cheating device

This would not be so much of a problem in a perfect society, however no society is perfect, and therefore, this system can be abused to the extreme.

i am not, in any way, shape, or form, accusing any admins or mods of deliberately attempting to waylay the youngin's here, however as you are fairly young kids yourselves, you do not have completely developed senses of morality etc.


.

This is the only thing I am going to touch on…I have seen this so much by so many people, and it boils down to this… "Fakali stated his reasons for not wanting to get involved with "Java Technology"….this site is about SRL…if you want to talk about java Bots, take it to a site that supports it"…..

You would have just as much luck going to any car club site, and trying to convince Ford fans, why you think Mopar is better…Both make an automobile that will do the same things, but the bottom line is about preference, and Respect.

I have investigated Java for myself, and reserve my own opions why I prefer not to use it…

I will express, that while using SCAR/SRL, I feel somewhat good, knowing that even though I am cheating, I am not infringing on any copyrights while doing so….. You can argue till your Blue in the face, the merits of Java over SCAR, but have you ever had the feeling of pride by making a fire with only rubbing 2 sticks together ?….It's the challenge of doing what some say can't be done, or without taking the easy way out…many will laugh at you, and pop open a fancy lighter….but any trained monkey can "Flic a Bic"….

From: elementalelf


this is actually where the problem lies… suddenly, the 11-16 year olds have a 41-2(sorry fakawi, cant remember your age, but i know its somewhere around there :) )role model, who, as one would assume, is fairly right wing, especially when it comes to runescape cheating…

As far as Fakgazzi being a role model….I would first say, that his own children have turned out very intelligent, polite and respectful. They have however formed their own opions and views of their own. As witnessing this, I would not call it a problem, because evidently he is a good role model…and not just to kids alone. He is a positive example to his peers as well, I have learned a great deal from him, with my short time having him being my friend. I have taken away, nothing but positive vibes from him.

Best Regards,

~RAM

BTW: Dated pic in profile…Do I fit the stereo-type ? ;)

From: RAM_RUNE

BTW: Dated pic in profile…Do I fit the stereo-type ? ;)

No :p.

to those that say i have been stereotyping:
that is exactly what i am doing, but im doing it in a realistic context…

whether you like it or not, every stereotype has some basis of truth.

From: elementalelf


whether you like it or not, every stereotype has some basis of truth.

Meaning you're all nerds.








Just kidding, but I'm too tired to read all the posts and provide a thoughtful response.

Nah, I'm a nerd, if you define it as someone who likes computers. (Pretty much everyone here… FTW?)

But if its as Elf described it, then no.


I don't see why this is such a big thing. Everyone follows someone, and even if you do have a emotional problem, you still will take sides.

There are three choices in life: To follow society or to rebel against society. Or neither.

I would start explaining Confucian principals, but you don't want to hear that. :p.

You guys don't get it. Simply put:

Runescape..an outlet for nerds, is what this forum is all about.

Now now, I'm not stereotyping that all people that play Runescape are nerds, but you do have to realize that A LOT of members on this forum are basically nerds with no social life. (Mostly the leechers, who, being insecure, don't like to talk).

I could be completely off with this..I didn't take time to read this thread..but that's how I feel.

just my $0.02 on this, i dont agree with the 'stereotype', yes there are many 'younger' kids on this forum, but even when i was that age i was never the 'smart kid' or 'nerd' cuz i played, hockey, football, skateboarded, rollerblade, and just had fun, my friends that i played with in rl also played rs and we just thought of it as a 'competition' or 'hoppy' that we liked to do. Now though i am 18 (originally from South Dakota) and have moved half way across the US to california and live on my own and going to college. I am still very athletic and i like computers as a hobby and am majoring in computer engineering, but hockey is still a BIG possiblity in my future, so i dont think that many ppl here are actually like that, i think they just do runescape as a past time or hobby as somethin they like to do, and compete to beat the system. atleast thats why i do it…

From: HyperSecret
just my $0.02 on this, i dont agree with the 'stereotype', yes there are many 'younger' kids on this forum, but even when i was that age i was never the 'smart kid' or 'nerd' cuz i played, hockey, football, skateboarded, rollerblade, and just had fun, my friends that i played with in rl also played rs and we just thought of it as a 'competition' or 'hoppy' that we liked to do. Now though i am 18 (originally from South Dakota) and have moved half way across the US to california and live on my own and going to college. I am still very athletic and i like computers as a hobby and am majoring in computer engineering, but hockey is still a BIG possiblity in my future, so i dont think that many ppl here are actually like that, i think they just do runescape as a past time or hobby as somethin they like to do, and compete to beat the system. atleast thats why i do it…

That's how I am, but I think we're a minority among people who play Runescape, I mean it's like IEatJ00erBaybees said, Runescape is a mainly a pastime for a certain type of person. Just looking at the Music section *cough* 90% System of a Down *cough* and what people's favorite types of music are, you can definitely say they fit a stereotype. Now is everyone like that? Hell no, but I definitely agree that we fit a stereotype, whether you like it or not (which most people don't like). I am definitely a nerd at heart, yet 0 of my friends know that I played Runescape or script. Is it because I'm embarrassed? You bet! Haha I actually don't mind getting made fun of, but I still avoid the topic.

Personally, I think I am better at soccer than probably 99% of you, however most of the 13 year olds here are much better scripters than I am, and I know that, so although everyone may fit into a similar category, we're all different people. I can see an Orthodox Jew on the street and say, "Dude's Jewish", but I don't know if he's also a champion pinpong player :p

Yeah, I don't really fit that stereotype either. I'm 5'9, 135 pounds (my friends have said I'm too muscular for 13), play tons of sports (now in the fall, because of my school baseball team and my regular team, I've got baseball practice 6 times w/ 2-3 games a week), I'm pretty tan, and I do have a good social life. I'd go on, but I don't want to be arrogant or seem like I'm bragging (of which it probably looks like).

Although, not trying to be stereotypical (just what I've noticed), I'd say about 3/4 of the kids at my school that play WoW are pale and skinny and don't play any sports/extra curricular activites. However, maybe there's a lot more people (like me) who try not to get video gaming, etc. involved with real life.

From: tim0suprem0
That's how I am, but I think we're a minority among people who play Runescape, I mean it's like IEatJ00erBaybees said, Runescape is a mainly a pastime for a certain type of person. Just looking at the Music section *cough* 90% System of a Down *cough* and what people's favorite types of music are, you can definitely say they fit a stereotype. Now is everyone like that? Hell no, but I definitely agree that we fit a stereotype, whether you like it or not (which most people don't like).

I think of the 10ish System of a Down songs on my iTunes, they've got at least 700 plays in total :rolleyes:

From: kikwit

I think of the 10ish System of a Down songs on my iTunes, they've got at least 700 plays in total :rolleyes:

See? That's what I mean though, like you may not fit completely into a certain category, but you have the same characteristic (your music tastes) that probably matches the kids you see who play WoW, even if they've never touched a football or baseball in their life.

EDIT: 500 Posts :D… still lesser demon

I wish I could continue reading this thread, but I'd rather voice my opinion before I have to head out. I stopped about two posts from the end of the last page and then just skimmed the rest to get the main ideas.

I agree with many people on these forums being possibly having many insecurities in their real lives. Hell, the only people that know I'm involved in Runscape cheating live within 100 yards of me (IE: My family and one of my neighbors). Many of those people feel a childish need for attention that they cannot satisy outside of the internet. To have someone higher up on the food chain look down on you and giving you that attention you need gives you a sense of purpose and encourangement.

Really, it is only human nature. People want to be wanted, they do not want to be seen as an outcast. By disagreeing they think they are being seen as different than everyone else, when what they need to realize is that not everyone has the same views on the world.

I think that's all I was going to say, most of the time my words don't flow together as well as I would like them to.

Hah! I'm twelve and I weigh 165 pounds of (mostly) muscle. I also use better grammar than some people here :p. (Braggage FTW!).


Besides that, why does the conversation getting at anyway? He just states that every one has a idol, and does some explanation. Purpose much?

From: r0b0t1
Besides that, why does the conversation getting at anyway?

So much for good grammar…

Town's argument was the best I've heard so far.

When do you turn 13 r0b0t?

From: r0b0t1
Hah! I'm twelve and I weigh 165 pounds of (mostly) muscle. I also use better grammar than some people here :p. (Braggage FTW!).

Your a fucking big 12 year old.

Haha and this thread seems to be becoming obsolete, I mean I suppose the topic here is just human nature, which we can't really change.

From: r0b0t1
Hah! I'm twelve and I weigh 165 pounds of (mostly) muscle.

robot, how tall are you? :eek:

I'm 5'8".


What? Did you think I'd be 7'? :p

Actually, this has gotten very off topic… Why does this always happen?


@Santa- That was a rare case in which my superior intelligence was functioning unsatisfactorily, in which that inferior sentence was able to take root. :(

Not to flame or anything but, really how are you an expert on this? I know that a lot of great scripters/people can lead amazing lives. As far as you know they are "popular" or they have "a life". Really how are you supposed to know?

For example, a lot of people cheat on RS but don't play it. They just want the satisfaction of making a great script and having it work well.

However leachers are an exception, they just want to cheat for money or skills so they can brag to their friends. Then you could probably assume that their only friends play Runescape with the exeption of a few others.

At school, not in highshool but elementary school I've noticed that there are groups of people that all they talk about is Runescape. They pay somebody for memberships because they don't want to ask their parents to call or w/e reason. They are insecure and they don't want people to be bugging them about RS so they blame somebody else (I.E. The person selling them memberships). They will basically tell them that it's this person is the biggest RS nerd or another person.

Every group of people are different but you can't judge everybody, most of the people that are in the RS crowds are probably leachers but they could be somebody helping out. You can't judge everybody but you are entitled to your opinion.

Wait wait, since when has System of a Down been a nerdy band? They are metal that sing about the weirdest crap ever. Is that why?

From: IEatJ00erBaybees
Wait wait, since when has System of a Down been a nerdy band? They are metal that sing about the weirdest crap ever. Is that why?

I'm not sure I don't listen to them…[offtopic]I listen to Nightwish[/offtopic]

From: c0de
Let's take a 7 year old kid in real life, if they hang out with an 14 year, they think of them as something superior, they become their idol, thus they like to imitate their moves, worst of all if a 14 year old smokes cigarettes (which he obviously saw from some 18 year old guy or something), 90% of the time he'll start smoking himself, just because his idol does it. When you ask him: "Why do you smoke?" Most of the times he will just shrug his shoulders and say: "Because it's cool…" or "Everyone else do it…".

People as beings need someone or something to look up on, it should be their parents but they always impersonate someone that is only few years older than them, because parents don't spend much time with them as does their friend they're looking up on. The problem is that they impersonate every single move of a wrong person. They impersonate someone that hasn't experienced anything in their life and they repeat their mistakes… That's why generations start growing up faster

I remember when I was a child, we used to play outside A LOT, and we respected each other. It's too bad I can't say that now for the 10-12 year old kids… They do not respect anyone until they get beaten by them. They smoke cigarettes just because they saw someone doing it and they think it makes them look older. They dress up as gangsters and carry pocket knives. I can go on like this forever, the fact is that there is a problem with whole society.

Ah yes, it's the parents that get blamed when their kid does something bad, and the similar situation that would fit this post is: people blame Admins/Devs for things that community members do.

We don't hate Java, but this is not place to ask about Java, we are experts in SCAR (Pascal, Delphi..) not the Java experts. We do things related to scar, not to Java, if we wanted to write color clicker in Java, community wouldn't be named SCAR RESOURCE LIBRARY, there are a lot of other communities that are not focused on one thing, we might be old school but it's what keeps us happy.

What gave bad name to java bots is aryan, it was wonderful piece of code I must admit, but people abused it and it got kaitnieks dead. That's why we fear of java and anything related to it, we don't want this community to die, we respect other peoples work, but this is not place for it.

If you read so far, I must congratulate to you. Please if anything seems unclear, wrong or there are some words missing, please ask and I will explain.

I stand behind my words and I shall defend it as it's my own opinion and no one has right to take that from me.

Thank you.

Well said c0de, and like I said earlier, I think we're really just discussing human nature lol, which I think is kinda pointless.

From: c0de
Let's take a 7 year old kid in real life, if they hang out with an 14 year, they think of them as something superior, they become their idol, thus they like to imitate their moves, worst of all if a 14 year old smokes cigarettes (which he obviously saw from some 18 year old guy or something), 90% of the time he'll start smoking himself, just because his idol does it. When you ask him: "Why do you smoke?" Most of the times he will just shrug his shoulders and say: "Because it's cool…" or "Everyone else do it…".

People as beings need someone or something to look up on, it should be their parents but they always impersonate someone that is only few years older than them, because parents don't spend much time with them as does their friend they're looking up on. The problem is that they impersonate every single move of a wrong person. They impersonate someone that hasn't experienced anything in their life and they repeat their mistakes… That's why generations start growing up faster

I remember when I was a child, we used to play outside A LOT, and we respected each other. It's too bad I can't say that now for the 10-12 year old kids… They do not respect anyone until they get beaten by them. They smoke cigarettes just because they saw someone doing it and they think it makes them look older. They dress up as gangsters and carry pocket knives. I can go on like this forever, the fact is that there is a problem with whole society.

I agree with you about the looking up to somebody and imitating them. Many, many people in my school listen to rap about people in poverty living in ghettos and stuff like that - I just sort of want to stick it in their face that even though you can listen to whatever you want, don't start thinking that you live a life like that. I think that music is one of the main factors (along with TV and media) that influences kid's identities.

However, I think that there are a lot more ways to gain respect besides beating up someone. Nobody at my school really gets into huge fist fights, except for a few misfit kids who have been expelled from previous schools. I'm from a rather wealthy neighborhood (our family bought in many years ago when it was still relatively 'cheap') in a very good school district, so my experiences might be a lot different. Just thinking, the people who have the most respect at my school are the ones who stand out - the outgoing ones, who express their opinion and have a strong identity and hang out with other talkative people - and also the ones who are different from the main stream.

This is middle school, not high school. I've got no clue about high school :p
The kids at my school don't dress up like gangsters - they just pretend to pretend to act like them.

From: c0de
Those kids in my post don't know the real value of knowledge and that there should be someone to get them back on the right path. (Notice how this applies to leechers.) They take things for granted.

You know the old saying: ''Give the man a fish, and you will feed him for one day. Teach a man to fish, and you will feed him for his whole life.''

I think that's why so many people disagree with elemental's post. Because siding with Fawki is not necessarily a bad thing, if anything, having him as a role model provides a positive influence on their behavior.

I think there's a difference between "having the problem of blind faith" and agreeing with someone who's opinion you respect.

robot: confusionism is inheritly flawed in that it was created by someone in an asiatic society.
not to be racist, its a fact, most, if not all of confucious's philosophies were disproven by the west long before we made cultural contact with asiatic countries.
c0de:
build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

From: elementalelf

build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

EDIT: Wow it took c0de explaining it to me to get it….. kinda sad haha.

Lol, I'm not Confucian Elemental, It was just one of the saying I've heard.


Anyway….

Some things must be accepted.

From: r0b0t1
Some things must be accepted.

And left alone. Runescape generally attracts a younger, male, white audience: deal with it. Saying people are pale in my opinion is totally beside the point… People have different ways of expressing their opinions, some voice theirs more than other.

It seems to me that this thread was sort of pointless, making accusations that everyone is just "following the leader," because even if they are, that is their own decision.

Everyone knows who Runescape attracts, inevitably attracting them here. My point is, it doesn't matter.

@Elemental: We should NOT be judged on physical characteristics, and I would say that you have barely been here long enough to judge most people's personalities. I will edit this when I think of more stuff.

wow. you brought up alot of good points

From: elementalelf
robot: confusionism is inheritly flawed in that it was created by someone in an asiatic society.
not to be racist, its a fact, most, if not all of confucious's philosophies were disproven by the west long before we made cultural contact with asiatic countries.
c0de:
build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Let's hate on asians a little more why don't we?





Haha just kidding :rolleyes:

From: elementalelf

c0de:
build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Lol, random.

I don't get the relavance.

From: WT-Fakawi
All forums have leaders, whether you like it or not. Even worse, forums without leaders, or people that show no leadership quickly become a nightmare, especially when the forum is engaged in against-the-rules activities such as cheating and is attactive to young people. I have carefully laid out the rules of this forum avoiding conflicts and staying in touch with other cheating forums in peacefull coexistence. As you have noticed, I ask nothing more then respect, normal ethical behaviour and do not wish to get involved into profitable activities. That keeps the Devil outside. This will appeal to some, but not to all and I am perfectly fine with that, since SRL has always stayed calm and compared to most cheating boards is of a fairly high communicational level.

The main reason for the strictness of rejection of the java-bots is plain and simple: Kaitnieks. Kaitnieks went down because jagex thought java-client Aryan sprouted from that board. Jagex lawyers poundered with threatmails at Kaitnieks door, causing him to freak out and leave the scene.

I have never tried to actively influence any of your opinions. I do not take part in discussions, other then rs-related ones. I understand that from a Darwinistic view, I am the one to look up to. Therefore I try to choose my words carefully, and very rarely you will find an impulsive response. The boards conservatism mentioned here is only valid for Ye-Olde-Color-Clickery-SCAR, in real life I am an Atheistic Anarchistic Hippy, but I do not advertise that as my opinions are rather extreme as opposed to conservative.

So, KYAB was rejected because it has potential to render SRL useless, is developed by some of the not-so-trusted and is java based. This does not mean that I am not interested in KYAB, on the contrary, I am a member of their forum too, but I simply do not want the Eye of Sauron focussed on SRL.

In short, yes you are right elf, I too have difficulties with this Godlike status. I encourage everyone to make up their own minds as opposed to Follow-The-Leader kinda behaviour (sooo… flock!), but if our paths accidentally coincide, ride along with me. I have nothing to offer except for my own personal view on rs-cheating and maybe just a little education here and there, but only on matters of programming, the human spirit and moral.

"Jagex lawyers poundered with threatmails at Kaitnieks door, causing him to freak out and leave the scene"
- no proof of the letters has ever been offered.

I have hosted and run cheating sites for almost 2 years. I know people who have hosted cheating sites for 5 years plus. From the days of autorune to today.

Your have blind faith toward kaitnieks. Kaitnieks word means nothing to me.
I have seen him direct his users into the biggest runescape scam ever. I have seen everyone in cheating just watch him do it will full knowledge.

Facts:
1.7 years ago:
Regex removed the Aryan boards from kaitnieks a few days before the re-direction.
Kaitnieks had a child on the way.

1.7-1 year ago:
Evidence i have collected over time: http://staticimp.com/public/raw/

Few weeks ago:
http://www.kaitnieks.com/AutoRune/index.php?n1=40067&n=99&user=Aivars&pass=a&v=302&c=0FC00000000000000000


My Theory:
Kaitnieks profited the most from Aryan buy selling them a bot that did not exist in-directly. Kaitnieks saw Aryan leaving his site. He lost interest in developing a long time before then. He was getting good money from google adsense. He forsaw cheating moving to other sites, mainly cheating following where ever aryan moves. Decided to do a deal with raw and give raw re-direction for weeks. A deal that would get him money now and guaranteed money. He was the most popular site in cheating, the users were very rich from aryan. They all had no fear about losing money. raw made alot of money selling per-auths to autorune2 a bot that did not exist. http://staticimp.com/public/raw/
Since then raw has come back twice with each time ddosing my site for a good period of time. The most recent time raw got kaitnieks to be a developer and to re-direct to raws new site.

From: elementalelf
ok, please note some things before i start:

-most of these traits are seen in basically all internet communities, this one not being an exception.
-regardless of anything written below, this is still easily the best RS cheating community i have been in since OGLabs.

Anyways, from my insofar, short stay here, i have seen a few things which i believe i should probably remark upon.
most of these things can be attributed merely to the "superhero" tendancy.
im guessing that most people on this forum, and im probably right in saying so, are the classical smart kid. i had a look through the pictures thread, and it seems to support this statement. most of the members are young, skinny, pale kids. i define young as being between 11-16.
this is fine for the most part, you are easily the most intelligent 11-16 year olds i have ever seen. if any school teacher could comprehend what you do here, they would realise as much too.
however you still have the same characteristics of the smart kid.
you are insecure, however you try to exude understanding, but at the same time, assumed superiority of ranks below you, whether you try to or not.

Anyways, onto the superhero tendancy.
from ages 6-12, and sometimes above, kids like you all watch cartoons, you were probably no different. cartoons follow a fairly rigid structure, that is, there is a protagonist, and an antagonist. the protagonist usually is in a continual, seemingly never-ending fight with the antagonist, however the protagonist always seems to come out on top.

since being weened off cartoons, and entering runescape cheating, you have had a cultural shock, regardless of whether you understand whats happening or not(i suspect most, if not all of you are completely unaware that this is happening) the cultural shock being that you now, instead of having one, clearly defined protagonist, have many MANY different protagonists to choose from, in the form of communities, i.e. moparisthebest, sythe, SRL, rscheata etc etc.
that doesnt necessarily mean that you will follow one community at the exclusion of all else, however you will probably assume the same moral attitudes and values as the leader of the community(in this case, the dev's, and admins, and ram_rune)
this does not mean that you attempt to completely emulate their personality, however it does mean that if, for example, fawaki decides to ban someone for a personal reason, or a reason that is not made public, you will all immediately side with fawaki, as you instinctivly know that he has done it for a good reason.

in short, the runescape community in general, and its leaders in particular, have become parents to your "internet" personalities in the same way that your real parents bestow their values on you as a part of your "Real life" personality.

i will put an example here:
before coming to this community, whether you will admit it or not, i am willing to bet that almost all of you had absolutely no inclination to shun java bots. now that you are in this community, whos mantra seems to be "we cheat, but not with java" almost all of you(with the exception of the KYAB crew) suddenly change your opinion from indifferent apathy, to abhorrence of any java cheating device

This would not be so much of a problem in a perfect society, however no society is perfect, and therefore, this system can be abused to the extreme.

i am not, in any way, shape, or form, accusing any admins or mods of deliberately attempting to waylay the youngin's here, however as you are fairly young kids yourselves, you do not have completely developed senses of morality etc.


the point im trying to make is:
Blind faith != success.

and most members here have the problem of blind faith to some degree. even if you honestly believe that you dont.


thank you.

Condensed version: Why are people so adverse to Java and Scar living to together in harmony?
Answer: The strife between Impsoft and SRL. End of story.

Also, you don't 'sound' much like the elementalelf I remember… What did pplsuqbawls used to make fun of you for? :) And OGLabs… Odie was annoying the whole time I knew him…

From: BenLand100
Condensed version: Why are people so adverse to Java and Scar living to together in harmony?
Answer: The strife between Impsoft and SRL. End of story.

Also, you don't 'sound' much like the elementalelf I remember… What did pplsuqbawls used to make fun of you for? :) And OGLabs… Odie was annoying the whole time I knew him…

the elementalelf you remember was 15 years old, im 17, ive grown up a fair bit.
to person who says something about accusations: my posts are merely observations. the "pale skinny" references were only to back up a stereotype which was paramount to my post.
back when i used to talk on vent/ts(i cant remember which one it was) mr holy half dead(pplsuqbawlz as you know him) ripped me off about my accent, as im from australia, hence i have an australian accent.
if i remember correctly it only happened once, but it was pretty funny.

From: elementalelf
back when i used to talk on vent/ts(i cant remember which one it was) mr holy half dead(pplsuqbawlz as you know him) ripped me off about my accent, as im from australia, hence i have an australian accent.
if i remember correctly it only happened once, but it was pretty funny.

It was pretty funny :p

also like to say that i dont agree with ruler in any way shape or form. to be honest i couldnt care less why kaitnieks did what he did, he obviously has a reason for it, regardless of whether or not its the reason he said.

Please, I think this is vary of topic. Let me say one more thing.

Because of the diversity of people or races on the internet, it is only plausible that a fair number are pale and skinny. The problem with this theory is that almost all developed countries have access to the internet, this stereotype is unreliable. The majority of the internet "population" will be fairly normal people, unless the human mind can alter probabilities (which I believe it can, but not on such a large scale, or if there is no immediate threat, I'll save this for another thread).


So please, there is really nothing else… Every thing has been covered, yes?

gravedig much? :P
yeah, this thread had already kinda died

From: WT-Fakawi
I know. I wasnt offended in the least. I get very rarily offended by the internet.

Fawki I hate you…..(sorry, someone had to do it)

I agree with basically everything you said elfy and unfortunately I am just as you described the stereotypical nerd - between 12 - 16(?) skinny and pale skin, however I do not think my self insecure but I do love the net :D.
But I would have to say you are probably a bit too stereo typical. Also it is kind common sense to realise that if KYAB was accepted here that it would be oh so much popular. I also hate people voting on members app that:
A) say : "I'll see how everyone else votes"
B) say : " My vote is <yes/no> same reasons as the guy above ^"
If you can't have your own opinion, stay out and no, i don't deny that I use to be one of those people. Anyways, members be less arrogant, stop sucking up and be as independant as possible.

EDIT:

From: elementalelf
gravedig much? :P
yeah, this thread had already kinda died

Your last posts was two days before his…how on earth is that a gravedig. Plus I didn't bother to read more than the first page. too many massive posts