SRL Archive - Discussions and Debates

Ever since the threshold for Junior members has been lowered to 30 posts I have seen countless people spamming their way to 30…I know the admins have to approve their rank (I think at-least) but it doesn't stop them from spamming (most recently https://villavu.com/forum/member.php?u=150136 )

Maybe we should do something about this maybe some sort of application process or once a user gets 30 posts we have to vote him in or else he has to wait another month? IDK just shooting ideas here

100 posts would be good

I don't think the admins need to approve the rank, pretty sure it's auto. I think it's too much work/time to approve each junior, I wouldn't want to and I don't think the admins would either.

Just report any spam posts, that's the system to weed out the spammers.

I think any time you have a requirement based only on post count to get into higher boards you're going to have a problem with people spamming the post count. I'd bet nobody here wants to spend their time looking at applications for Jr. Members, nor do I think that applying for Jr. Members is a good way to encourage people to get the rank.

In my opinion, we either have to put up with people who spam or remove the post count requirement. At least there's a report button that anyone can use to report spamming to the mods (little triangle + "!" in the bottom right of posts).

From: 3Garrett3
I think any time you have a requirement based only on post count to get into higher boards you're going to have a problem with people spamming the post count. I'd bet nobody here wants to spend their time looking at applications for Jr. Members, nor do I think that applying for Jr. Members is a good way to encourage people to get the rank.

In my opinion, we either have to put up with people who spam or remove the post count requirement. At least there's a report button that anyone can use to report spamming to the mods (little triangle + "!" in the bottom right of posts).

Yet, I am not quite sure what to do with spammers.

Just limit it to 5 posts a day (max) will count towards jr member.

From: masterBB
Yet, I am not quite sure what to do with spammers.

I don't really have sway with the operations but I think ideally any Mod or Admin can just infract the spammer and it automatically messages them indicating they've been flagged for spamming. It could have a message indicating who they could contact if wrongfully accused. I think additionally it would be nice to roll back their post count to 0 (if they've spammed to 30, not if already Jr or + spams).

Not sure how easily those things could be implimented, but a system which makes it easy as possible for the Mod/Admin to recieve the spam report and determine if infraction or not would be nice. The rest could be automatic, ie infraction for rank spamming as opposed to general spamming would roll your post count back to 0, infract you, and send a standard notification.

Yeah, even with the report system, even if we remove the spammy posts, they will eventually get junior rank no matter what if that is their goal.

I like to think of Juniors being those who either understand basic scripting or don't understand programming but have a strong desire to help or contribute in some other way.

Is it possible to have the rank not based on pure post count, but based on a more filtered post count (e.g. you get +1 to the filtered post count if your post meets criteria like: longer than X characters, not a post in forums like Semi-Stupid Pictures, etc).

Have this criteria hidden so nobody knows exactly how to abuse it. People would then passively become juniors without "expecting to" because they spammed to a certain point or whatever.

I know other forums have systems like that, some forums don't count towards post-based ranks.

From: Olly
Just limit it to 5 posts a day (max) will count towards jr member.

The trick is somehow notably documenting that and not ending up with a hundred threads asking 'why arent my post going upper'

From: Kevin
The trick is somehow notably documenting that and not ending up with a hundred threads asking 'why arent my post going upper'

That's why I think the known rule that "you get juniors when you hit 30 posts" should be publicly changed to "you get juniors when you make several posts of quality and contribution" or something vague. Post count/forum related concerns like that are then irrelevant to the rank.

The hard part is creating objective criteria that the forum can auto-calculate for such a subjective thing like quality and contribution, but I feel like we could come up with something better than simply 30 posts.

From: Clarity
That's why I think the known rule that "you get juniors when you hit 30 posts" should be publicly changed to "you get juniors when you make several posts of quality and contribution" or something vague. Post count/forum related concerns like that are then irrelevant to the rank.

The hard part is creating objective criteria that the forum can auto-calculate for such a subjective thing like quality and contribution, but I feel like we could come up with something better than simply 30 posts.

Maybe we could mislead people into thinking it's completely manual and postcount has nothing to do with it, yeah. But it would be sort of underhanded.

From: BMWxi
Maybe we could mislead people into thinking it's completely manual and postcount has nothing to do with it, yeah. But it would be sort of underhanded.

I'm not suggesting we outright lie about requirements, I think that's kind of weird.
We can just say something that's vague, but also true. We would not indicate whether it is automatically assigned or manually assigned, or really indicate anything objective. The more specific we are, the more easily/frequently people will abuse it.

"The SRL Junior Rank is given to those who make helpful, quality contributions to the SRL Community."

That's all we need to say. Then, behind the scenes, the real objective/formulaic criteria are set up.

The type of people we want as juniors will read this and understand what it subjectively means, and eventually get juniors simply by being themselves on the forums. People who are looking to game the system to get the rank will have no clues whatsoever.

Ideas for new criteria:
-Rank auto assigned when filtered post count is greater than X
-Posts in off-topic forums don't count towards filtered post count, only posts in Scripts/SRL/Simba/Tutorial related forums count
-Posts below 100 characters don't count towards filtered post count

Other ideas?

Clarity I think those are all really good ideas. One other thing I could think of is maybe if they post with Simba tags (so hopefully they're actually trying some coding out) it counts at maybe 3? (Obviously not towards their overall post count, but to the X number that makes them a junior member).

Also, sorry if this is still a thing, but if not I always liked the old system with the minimum of 7 days registered requirement as well.

From: Clarity
I'm not suggesting we outright lie about requirements, I think that's kind of weird.
We can just say something that's vague, but also true. We would not indicate whether it is automatically assigned or manually assigned, or really indicate anything objective. The more specific we are, the more easily/frequently people will abuse it.

"The SRL Junior Rank is given to those who make helpful, quality contributions to the SRL Community."

That's all we need to say. Then, behind the scenes, the real objective/formulaic criteria are set up.

The type of people we want as juniors will read this and understand what it subjectively means, and eventually get juniors simply by being themselves on the forums. People who are looking to game the system to get the rank will have no clues whatsoever.

Ideas for new criteria:
-Rank auto assigned when filtered post count is greater than X
-Posts in off-topic forums don't count towards filtered post count, only posts in Scripts/SRL/Simba/Tutorial related forums count
-Posts below 100 characters don't count towards filtered post count

Other ideas?

This sounds like a good idea.

I believe i got my jr members only after 6 months + 300 posts. When is this changed?

Edit: @Kevin; could you make a santa gif for me this year again? :)

From: hoodz
I believe i got my jr members only after 6 months + 300 posts. When is this changed?

Edit: @Kevin; could you make a santa gif for me this year again? :)

Indeed, that is when Junior's used to be handed out (albeit some got it early in rare cases). It was eventually changed because we've never had a reason to really define Junior's so stringently, not to mention it was a large barrier that discouraged people from starting any level of activity.

Also, I didn't make those gifs. I thought @BMWxi; made them for everyone?

From: Kevin
Indeed, that is when Junior's used to be handed out (albeit some got it early in rare cases). It was eventually changed because we've never had a reason to really define Junior's so stringently, not to mention it was a large barrier that discouraged people from starting any level of activity.

Also, I didn't make those gifs. I thought @BMWxi; made them for everyone?

Not everyone, just a few people. Some of them use higher detail snowflakes, the ones I made were the ones with the simple pixel snowflakes.

So getting back to the brainstorming of alternate junior criteria, anyone have any more thoughts?

From: Clarity
So getting back to the brainstorming of alternate junior criteria, anyone have any more thoughts?

I like the idea, but could we also institute the time period, maybe two weeks? This way they are actually here, not just spamming for a day?

Also, you could make it a point based system?

Such as:

• Post in the tutorial section over 100 characters in length gives you +3 points
• Post in the general section over 50 characters in length gives you +1 point
• Posting in the script section with Simba Tags + 50 characters gives you +5 points

That way, each post would be filtered based on relative contribution, because longer posts with included Simba tags would be weighted much higher than a general post. You could then make a threshold, such as 50 points total and 7 days registered would auto update their rank? I don't know how feasible this is, but it would be a bit more specific than just posts in a forum area, plus it gives each post a weight?

I like these ideas - I just don't know if the admins have the time and/or desire to input all of these… some may be a little complicated to do. I mean we don't have that many people spamming and often those end up with infractions/bans (for the record I am all for revamping JM's).

Or we could just ban them all!!!

From: Ashaman88
I like these ideas - I just don't know if the admins have the time and/or desire to input all of these… some may be a little complicated to do. I mean we don't have that many people spamming and often those end up with infractions/bans (for the record I am all for revamping JM's).

Or we could just ban them all!!!

Lol, banhammah. I think that possibly if some members were willing to do the legwork it would not be too hard for the admins, I just don't know how allowable that is.

From: Ashaman88

Or we could just ban them all!!!

Agreed, let's ban all registered users. And Junior Members.

And inactive Members.

And active Members.

And SSRL.

And Mods.

From: Kevin
Agreed, let's ban all registered users. And Junior Members.

And inactive Members.

And active Members.

And SSRL.

And Mods.

Keep the devs though of course?

From: Ashaman88
Keep the devs though of course?

We've gotta have someone to make the scripts for us to leech, so fine.

OT: Clarity's suggestions win, I realize it's a lot of effort for the admins though. I've just been keeping vigilant and reporting spammers as required. It doesn't happen *too* often, so maybe it's the easiest solution for now.

From: 3Garrett3
We've gotta have someone to make the scripts for us to leech, so fine.

OT: Clarity's suggestions win, I realize it's a lot of effort for the admins though. I've just been keeping vigilant and reporting spammers as required. It doesn't happen *too* often, so maybe it's the easiest solution for now.

The problem with that though, I think, is that this does nothing other than delaying their reward for spamming by a few days. It's great that we can report spammers and we have active mods that will suspend them, but once their suspension ends, it's as if nothing happened, and they can go about their business accessing the new boards.

Unless there is more complexity to the suspension punishment than I think there is.

increasing the required time (1month) to 2-3 months?

Meh.. Let em play around as they wish. It doesn't really do any harm, does it?
Here goes my idea: Lower the limit down to say 1 post to avoid people posting 30 useless posts in a single day if it really irritates you that much ^____-

or…
We could just do NOTHING! Best idea so far! Am I right? Let me tell you why: Because it's a pointless topic. There must be something better you can do than to whine about the new-guy who wrote 10 posts or more in a short timespan.

From: slacky
Meh.. Let em play around as they wish. It doesn't really do any harm, does it?
Here goes my idea: Lower the limit down to say 1 post to avoid people posting 30 useless posts in a single day if it really irritates you that much ^____-

or.. we could just do NOTHING which is what I would prefer, as this is just pointless.

Why wouldn't we just remove the rank then

From: Robert
Why wouldn't we just remove the rank then

Sure and the SRL-member as well.

SSRL can keep their rank, as it's nice to see who are the real oldtimers around here :) The rest of the ranks are pretty much pointless.

I didn't really consider this whining, more like trying to improve and rework an existing forum feature to make it work as I believe it was originally intended.

I don't think suggestions for improving SRL are pointless.

I do agree that post count is a bad criterion but I've pretty much covered my ideas for moving around that in past posts.

From: slacky
Meh.. Let em play around as they wish. It doesn't really do any harm, does it?
Here goes my idea: Lower the limit down to say 1 post to avoid people posting 30 useless posts in a single day if it really irritates you that much ^____-

or…
We could just do NOTHING! Best idea so far! Am I right? Let me tell you why: Because it's a pointless topic. There must be something better you can do than to whine about the new-guy who wrote 10 posts or more in a short timespan.

Kind of a rude post do you not think so? Possibly could have worded that a bit better.

I really agree with the topic, it is not pointless to try and improve the forum. I feel like it was simply a suggestion, why discourage ideas and making improvements to the system? I guess I understand your view of it not being a big issues to you, but maybe it bugs other people?

It may sound weird coming from me since I only just got SRL Member today, but here's my thoughts:

In the past 4 months I've seen three groups of Jr Member:

1. Learners (people like me who wanted to learn and contribute)
2. Testers (people who want to contribute by testing, providing feedback, and offering suggestions for features/improvements, but don't have the time and/or ability to learn)
3. Leechers ("div bot isnt working help???")

The ridiculously low requirements for Jr basically lump all three types into one, despite the fact that Jr Member group 1 and 2 are the kind of people who are contributing to the community, people who are described well by Clarity:

From: Clarity
I like to think of Juniors being those who either understand basic scripting or don't understand programming but have a strong desire to help or contribute in some other way.

So, the question shouldn't be "how can we stop spammers?", but rather, "how can we differentiate between contributors and leechers and give Jr Member to the former while discouraging the latter?"

I do agree that a defined post count as low as 30 just encourages spamming, but if the requirements for Jr were something like 100 posts and 3 months since join date, I think that that alone would weed out a lot of people from group #3 . That being said, I have no idea how difficult it would be to implement the suggested "filters" (or even possible?), but if they are easy enough to implement then they would definitely be the best way to go.

In that case, a filter that only adds post count from contributing posts would probably work quite well, in addition to a vague Jr Member requirement of "(making) helpful, quality contributions to the SRL Community."

To summarise, I'm not just for the idea of filtering Jr Members based on a problem with post spammers, but I'm for the idea of making the Jr Member rank actually mean something. Don't get me wrong, I was thrilled when I got it (serious, lol), but I very quickly realised that every leecher from here to Powerban had Jr Member and there wasn't really much to be achieved by obtaining it.

Just my $0.02, hope it made sense. :)

From: Incurable
…

I know that rep is pretty much meaningless around here, but to me it would be a decent requirement or way to discern leechers from contributors. Even a minimum reputation of 10 or so for junior mems would weed out your category 3.

edit: subliminal message.

From: Ross
I know that rep is pretty much meaningless around here, but to me it would be a decent requirement or way to discern leechers from contributors. Even a minimum reputation of 10 or so for junior mems would weed out your category 3.

edit: subliminal message.

Honestly, that's not even a bad idea. I agree, rep is meaningless and is just for a bit, but using it as a way to filter new contributing members from spammers and leechers would be great.

From: Incurable
Honestly, that's not even a bad idea. I agree, rep is meaningless and is just for a bit, but using it as a way to filter new contributing members from spammers and leechers would be great.

default rep is 10 and since us SRL members can't de-rep their rep would pretty much be inflated

Today we had a couple people spam to junior rank again, very blatantly. The posts were deleted but once their punishment runs out, they will still become Juniors.

So I wanted to revive this discussion.

Reputation filter sounds good as long as we don't tell anyone that reputation contributes to earning the rank.
If we post something silly, completely outlining all the filters for the rank, people would just PM each other, trading rep for rep so both could eventually get junior scripts.


This whole concept would work best if, like I said earlier, the rank is earned after multiple filters and checks, rather than just a single thing. That way it remains ambiguous.

What would these new kinds of criteria require, forum/plugin/coding wise? Can they be done?

From: Clarity
Today we had a couple people spam to junior rank again, very blatantly. The posts were deleted but once their punishment runs out, they will still become Juniors.

So I wanted to revive this discussion.

Reputation filter sounds good as long as we don't tell anyone that reputation contributes to earning the rank.
If we post something silly, completely outlining all the filters for the rank, people would just PM each other, trading rep for rep so both could eventually get junior scripts.


This whole concept would work best if, like I said earlier, the rank is earned after multiple filters and checks, rather than just a single thing. That way it remains ambiguous.

What would these new kinds of criteria require, forum/plugin/coding wise? Can they be done?

Maybe it's time to restore de-rep being back to mems, because anybody can get a certain rep in a given time regardless of spam posts

Couldn't we have members nominate and then maybe vote on who should be promoted behind the scenes. And somehow automate the promotion so the staff does not have to come through and promote everyone. This would require us to work a bit, but there is a lot of active srl members and it wouldn't be remotely hard on our part.

From: Camel
Couldn't we have members nominate and then maybe vote on who should be promoted behind the scenes. And somehow automate the promotion so the staff does not have to come through and promote everyone. This would require us to work a bit, but there is a lot of active srl members and it wouldn't be remotely hard on our part.

Junior mems would then be harder to get than SRL mems
I would rather it automatically start a poll when they reach x posts and x rep or whatever