SRL Archive - Senior Discussions and Debates

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Was speaking to Hobbit today on IRC. IIRC the 'rank' was given to him so he has access to this sub-section of the forum: http://villavu.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=205

I concur with Olly. If he is reflection dev then I should def be SRL dev. I would destroy him.

But really an explanation for why would at least be nice.

My thoughts 95%.

From: Justin
Was speaking to Hobbit today on IRC. IIRC the 'rank' was given to him so he has access to this sub-section of the forum: http://villavu.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=205

What exactly is that sub-section!

Password required!!

SRL Reflection development sub forum. Though a cup is not required to access that.

From: masterBB
SRL Reflection development sub forum. Though a cup is not required to access that.

Change it ;)

I lol'd.. All of their functions are from this thread: http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105118 and from https://github.com/SRL/SRL-Reflection-2

There is not a single thing different. Even the file format for the hooks itself are from there.

Changing multipliers and hooks don't count.. Did anyone actually believe: http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107479&p=1279221#post1279221
wrote that themselves? Out of no where?

http://94-23-148-96.ovh.net/forum/member.php?u=403 doesn't even have a reflection cup yet :l and he has written a lot: https://code.google.com/p/simba-reflection-updater/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fupdater%2Fupdater%2Fcommon%253Fstate%253Dclosed

If anyone has to get a CUP, it is Mormonman and Iamadam.

From: Brandon
If anyone has to get a CUP, it is Mormonman and Iamadam.

The cup was given as the easiest way of giving him access to that forum. He wasn't promoted to srl ref dev. No one claims he was better then those other guys.

From: masterBB
The cup was given as the easiest way of giving him access to that forum. He wasn't promoted to srl ref dev. No one claims he was better then those other guys.

But I didn't get the srl-dev cup when i was helping out with srl-6 :p (nor did you!) !

If I might throw this out there… that subforum is for the purpose of the official SRL-Reflection library, no? What they're making is not official, so I don't see the need to give them access to that area.

By the way, why is it normal SRL developers can't even access it?…

From: Brandon
Changing multipliers and hooks don't count.. Did anyone actually believe: http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107479&p=1279221#post1279221
wrote that themselves? Out of no where?

Don't be so quick to judge. I've seen the code. It works and it's legit.

The answer is simple, elfyyy wishes to keep reflection alive and is willing to learn. He needs to access reflection subforum so let him.
I don't really care who updates the reflection include as long as it gets updated.

Do you mind explaining why this is so important to you when developers haven't given 2-fucks about the OSR include until yesterday?

Elfyyy is at a dis-advantage working with other people's code but he is making an effort to understand and update hooks.
This is supposed to be a community based on learning and sharing knowledge. Do not act all smug because you think you could do a better job at something.

When someone else with better java skills actually shows interest in working on the OSR reflection include then feel free to suggest them for a cup.

From: Krazy_Meerkat
The answer is simple, elfyyy wishes to keep reflection alive and is willing to learn. He needs to access reflection subforum so let him.
I don't really care who updates the minireflection include as long as it gets updated.

Do you mind me asking why this is so important to you when the OSR include has been left to rot by most (if not all) of the SRL Developer team?

Elfyyy is at a dis-advantage working with other people's code but he is making an effort to understand how to update hooks.
This is supposed to be a community based on learning and sharing knowledge. Do not sit on your high-horse with a smug look on your face because you think you could do a better job at something.

When someone else with better reflection skills actually shows interest in working on the reflection include then by all means you have a right to complain.

The OP surely was not intended to attack, it's rather asking for an explanation. I don't think anyone would have simply said NO to this, but I for one think it's far, far too early. The old includes (Reflection 1 & 2) are still fully intact on Github and they're more than welcome to use those, but by no means is what they're working on official to SRL.

If it were up to me I would wait until the include is complete and operational then present it to the higher-ups and come to an agreement on if it should be considered as the official SRL-Reflection library.

If I might cite Brandon's previous work on OGL interception; he did all of that work himself. He made the plugin to communicate with Simba and even a custom version of SMART to load it so we could still use SMART with OpenGL. Infact he developed a basic include with a large amount of useful code for scripters. He did it all by himself, the plugin, the client, the include, and he got nothing back in return. That my friend is worthy of a rank. So while I can't speak for the others I can understand exactly where Brandon is coming from. His solo project for nothing vs copy & pasting for rank, it doesn't seem fair to me.

@Brandon: I realize you were comparing elfyyy to the original Reflection Developers, I was simply using you and your project as an example.

From: Flight
The OP surely was not intended to attack, it's rather asking for an explanation. I don't think anyone would have simply said NO to this, but I for one think it's far, far too early. The old includes (Reflection 1 & 2) are still fully intact on Github and they're more than welcome to use those, but by no means is what they're working on official to SRL.

If it were up to me I would wait until the include is complete and operational then present it to the higher-ups and come to an agreement on if it should be considered as the official SRL-Reflection library.

If I might cite Brandon's previous work on OGL interception; he did all of that work himself. He made the plugin to communicate with Simba and even a custom version of SMART to load it so we could still use SMART with OpenGL. Infact he developed a basic include with a large amount of useful code for scripters. He did it all by himself, the plugin, the client, the include, and he got nothing back in return. That my friend is worthy of a rank. So while I can't speak for the others I can understand exactly where Brandon is coming from. His solo project for nothing vs copy & pasting for rank, it doesn't seem fair to me.

@Brandon: I realize you were comparing elfyyy to the original Reflection Developers, I was simply using you and your project as an example.

I'm not suggesting the OP was an attack, Olly stated that it wasn't..

I don't argue that Brandon isn't deserving of a reward for his opengl work, or that Olly and MasterBB don't deserve a cup for working on SRL-6.
I was just asking why this thread has people mocking elfyyy, who is only trying to help, in an include which is collecting dust.

If there were higher-ups who had jobs of updating the OSR include then you wouldn't see:

• People using SRL-5
• Old-as-hell Official SRL-OSR
• Hoodz updated SRL-OSR
• (@Flight) Your Lape version of SRL-OSR
• Me updating 5 anti-random solvers because a simple issue has broken them.

Guys. It was just to give him access to old thread and information. Nothing else. If anyone else shows interest in some project they get access too, especially if the old project is dead.

From: Krazy_Meerkat

Don't you think that if there were higher-ups doing their jobs of updating the OSR include then you wouldn't see:

• People using SRL-5
• Old-as-hell Official SRL-OSR
• Hoodz updated SRL-OSR
• (@Flight) Your Lape version of SRL-OSR
• Me updating 5 anti-random solvers because a simple issue has broken them.

I don't think anyone has a job to update anything. I have thought multiple times about re-writing srl-osr to copy srl-6's style but the backlash that would just be stupid…

Honestly the whole reason why srl-osr is awful / in a awful state is down to the fact it was based on srl-5 (which was bad enough), And had no dedicated dev when it was made.

e: If your going to write a relfection include, I strongly suggest srl-6's style.

From: Krazy_Meerkat
I understand the hate of copy+pasting. But why the need to get upset? Most of the SRL include is copy+pasted from earlier versions.. When everyone here is taking the piss out of elfyyy for wanting to update reflection, how else is he supposed to do it? You, Brandon and Ashaman are obviously not interested in helping him.

That is simply not true. At all, actually. SRL-6 is 98% original code. Sure, function ideas were transitioned from earlier versions of SRL, but to call it a copy/paste of previous versions is insulting.

And you talk about "higher-ups" doing their jobs? You have to realize almost all of the "higher-ups" you're referring to are no longer active. Olly and myself (me not even very much) are the only remaining active developers of SRL-6, so maintaining an additional library is simply out of the question. You talk like there's a development team for SRL-OSR. SRL-OSR literally came out of no where - it's a direct copy of SRL-5 that was modified to work with OSR. There has never been an official development team (except for maybe Flight, but a single person isn't a team). The funny thing is, there's an SRL-OSR on GitHub that literally anyone can modify and send a pull request, so I think it's silly to have several modified versions for people to use. These people that made modified versions could take the 5 minutes it takes to learn how to open a GitHub pull request and bam, you have an updated SRL-OSR include.

My point is SRL-OSR has no structured development or development team; it has a bunch of individuals who prefer to do things on their own (or maybe just don't have the knowledge to work in a team). SRL Developers (myself, Olly, Flight, euphemism, etc.) should not be expected to have anything to do with OSR. Sure, we can if we want, but we were made developers for SRL-5 or 6, which is now tailored for RS3 and that is our primary focus. You shouldn't expect anything more, or say things like "if they were doing their jobs". It's not like anyone here gets paid and do this as a full time job. We all have lives; we can't do everything.

I think I'm done.

From: Krazy_Meerkat
Brandon and Ashaman88 have all reacted in a very jealous manner..
You, Brandon and Ashaman are obviously not interested in helping him.

I was just asking why this thread has people like Brandon mocking elfyyy, who is only trying to help, in an include which is collecting dust.

Don't you think that if there were higher-ups doing their jobs of updating the OSR include then you wouldn't see..

YOU have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I have never asked for a single cup that I have. NOR have I ever asked SRL for anything at all. Infact, most of the time I just release things and no one knows until then. I don't care about rank or some silly cup. I care about being fair and equal to all.

Do you actually think I'm jealous that he's working on a reflection include when I am the one who wrote all the exports for Smart's reflection with Benland100?

Really now? Why would I help if I didn't want anyone else to work on it? Did you even click the links I linked to?
I also have a reflection updater and I've been helping elfffy on Skype and through pm's.. There is no jealousy here because I wouldn't be helping him then..

Why don't you take a look at my PM's.. There's more where this came from:

So don't give me crap about not caring and not wanting to help. Just because I don't go public about it doesn't mean I don't do anything. Secondly, after helping people, they pick and choose and only add what they want to the include. Imagine giving someone 30+ reflection functions and only seeing 3 added to the include. And you come now and point fingers and wonder why the include isn't developed. I don't even ask for credit. Nothing. Simply because I don't care. As long as it works and it's there, it is fine by me.


My argument is strictly that if he gets a cup, mormonman must get one. I don't care about whether or not I get a cup at all or Olly or whoever else.. I was just simply stating that the old devs who's work is actually being copied should get a cup if elfffy gets one. No where did I say he doesn't deserve it or shouldn't be able to access the subforum. A cup cannot be the only way to access a subforum btw. I also wasn't mocking elfffy. I was mocking Borland. See below for why (No array size hook publicly available).

I just believe in fairness that is all. Btw, mormonman lives in #SRl-Reflection on irc. So does pyroryan.

Here's my reason for stopping helping developing the reflection include:
A lot of us don't even play RS, let alone have a members account to develop for OSR and reflection. I just recently got one tbh..

There is a rift in the community. There are some out there who want to limit the include and only write just the necessities for walking and interfaces so that colour can still play a part in OSR. I on the other hand believe that a full blown reflection include should be written and will take no part in a partial include. If you want to use colour, that is fine, but the reflection include should not be limited because you feel colour will be threatened. Why did we spend all that time exporting all of smart's reflection API if only a couple of it is to be used? Makes no sense. You can have a full blown reflection API and only use what you feel to use. There is no need to pick and choose what goes in and out of the include. You know what though, the current reflection include was picked and chosen. None of the equipment functions, npc functions, tile distance functions was added to it.

There was a time when JJ, NKN, myself, mormonman and n3ss3s were all racing to make the best updater (n3ss3s was l33t and was already finished).. Ask yourself why the include is missing so many of the functions already written. Do you know how many times we gave "hoodz" or whatever his name was and even publicly published, the functions to add to that mini-reflection include? Do you know what was added? Just the silly tile functions and walk path along with just the compass functions.. After spending hours finding the NPC array size and player array size, that's all that was added. Click http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105118&p=1259880#post1259880 and you'll see the NPC and player arrays, equipment, and what not. I cannot believe you think that none of us care. We care but I just had to lol when that guy said "he" wrote the NPC stuff. Please, tell me where he got the NPC/Player size from. AFAIK, there is no array size hook other than the one I had posted with the help of Pyroryan..

Besides all that, I've been helping recompile tesseract, working on direct-x, and html-5, etc.. So yeah it's mostly about being busy. No one is being egotistical or cocky here. Just truthful is all.

My biggest thing is wasting time though. I think most don't want to work on reflection for osr because it uses PS and not Lape. What happens when PS gets dropped from Simba? An entire rewrite will be needed and we all know how long it took to rewrite srl-6.. If you really want osr-reflection, help rewrite the OSR include itself. As of right now, the reflection include you're writing doesn't even take into account Smart's target pairing mechanism.. Spawning multiple clients is going to be a pain.

What do you think Smart's reflection "Wrappers" were written for? http://pastebin.com/TqVYgj9c

Anyway..
Now the only updater that even works after all that, is n3ss3s's and he has the most experience out of all but he's pretty much done with it.

Who knew a cup/icon/gif/whatever you want to call it/ could cause so much drama..

Maybe you missed masterBB's post..

From: masterBB
Guys. It was just to give him access to old thread and information. Nothing else. If anyone else shows interest in some project they get access too, especially if the old project is dead.

Bam.
EDIT: I was ninja'd