SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

Simple question, very complicated answer.

Classification of '< humans' or '> humans' is subjective, perhaps you should define them in your reply.


Edit:
I had intended for the poll to use checkbox's rather than radio's. I suppose just choose the 'highest' form you think is out there. Or if an admin could possibly fix my poll for me that would be great. ;)

Having a strong belief in science I'd imagine out of the vast amounts of planets in the universe there must be other beings.

From: Flight
Having a strong belief in science I'd imagine out of the vast amounts of planets in the universe there must be other beings.

I share my opinion with you here, the earth is so small is comparison to the universe, There has to be more life forms out there.

Personal Opinion: Strong/complete denial of the possibility of extraterrestrial life is a sign of closed-mindedness. Surprisingly this breed is not all that rare.

To prevent 137 replies all synonymous to 'probably' I have added different forms of possible extraterrestrial life forms to hopefully add depth to the discussion.

• Basic Microbes
• Multicellular
• < Human
• > Human

The last two choices are subjective and could use some interpretation. Many believe humans are the superior life form on earth while someone else may believe that title should go to, say.. the lion as it can kill a crowd of humans with ease. (poor example) I personally wouldn't mind having some characteristics that extremophiles have, but does that make them '> Human'? I think most emphasis should be placed on the life-form's progress as a civilization.

Some quick examples
< Human: mouse, cat, dog
> Humans: Capable of: Interplanetary travel, multiple-planet colonization, time travel, etc.

These classifications are derived from life on Earth. It is possible that some lifeforms out there stretch or redefine our very definition of life, thus rendering our classifications obsolete. close example (later refuted, but still illustrates what I mean)

I voted for multi-cellular for the same reasons as the above two posts. Multi-cellular would include lesser and greater than humans right? :p
My first thought of what you meant by "< human" was beings of less intelligence, technology development and dominance over other beings.
We don't even know how big the universe is, or even whether it is infinite or not. Obviously if it is infinite (which I doubt it is personally) then there are an infinite number of possible living beings.

From: Solar
I voted for multi-cellular for the same reasons as the above two posts. Multi-cellular would include lesser and greater than humans right? :p
My first thought of what you meant by "< human" was beings of less intelligence, technology development and dominance over other beings.
We don't even know how big the universe is, or even whether it is infinite or not. Obviously if it is infinite (which I doubt it is personally) then there are an infinite number of possible living beings.

So you're saying you do think that there are '> human' life forms somewhere

No. Only if the universe is infinite, which I don't believe it is.

From: Solar
No. Only if the universe is infinite, which I don't believe it is.

Have you heard of Dark Matter?

Theres gotta be some other stuff out there somewhere

From: Flight
Have you heard of Dark Matter?

Of course. Not sure what you are getting at though? Are you suggesting that even if the universe is infinite, it could just be filled with dark matter and energy?

From: Solar
Of course. Not sure what you are getting at though? Are you suggesting that even if the universe is infinite, it could just be filled with dark matter and energy?

According to all current theories, the universe is not infinite by any means. However that does not mean the absolute scale and size of the universe is not completely beyond measure. Even if the chance for life (intelligent or not) is 1:million for earth-like worlds AND the chance for planets with life to contain a lifeform of a bronze age or greater intelligence was 1:million among the planets with life, it is still WELL within statistical reason for there to be a plethora of planets beyonds our current technological state.

From: Solar
Of course. Not sure what you are getting at though? Are you suggesting that even if the universe is infinite, it could just be filled with dark matter and energy?

Here's a pretty good reference to the subject:
http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy/

From: Flight
Here's a pretty good reference to the subject:
http://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy/

I didn't read it but I had a very quick scim through it and it seems like it covers somethings that I've already studied at uni. I still don't know why you asked if I knew of it though.

@Kevin: I know the statistics are in favour of there being life if we explore far enough, but that's sort of the whole point. We don't know the size of the universe, and so we can't say how many planets there are, or any other numbers we'd need to calculate probabilities.
As I said, I doubt the universe is infinite, but still, theories are only theories. Nothing is proven, just backed up with evidence (or sometimes not).

What kind of evidence is there beyond probabilities, infinite univ etc etc.? Like any actual life forms found?

From: Solar
I didn't read it but I had a very quick scim through it and it seems like it covers somethings that I've already studied at uni. I still don't know why you asked if I knew of it though.

@Kevin: I know the statistics are in favour of there being life if we explore far enough, but that's sort of the whole point. We don't know the size of the universe, and so we can't say how many planets there are, or any other numbers we'd need to calculate probabilities.
As I said, I doubt the universe is infinite, but still, theories are only theories. Nothing is proven, just backed up with evidence (or sometimes not).

I agree that statistics are not inherently facts. But it is perfectly reasonable based on what we can observe that within our 46 billion light year of observable radius around us, there are approximately 10^23 stars. Theoretically life-supporting worlds occur more than once per star, while worlds that precisely match Earth's statistics are more around 1:5000-10000 (at least at the currently observed rate). But even at the worst case scenario, these numbers are tremendously huge to deny a likelihood. Am I guaranteeing anything? No. But the likelihood is astonishing.

From: Ashaman88
What kind of evidence is there beyond probabilities, infinite univ etc etc.? Like any actual life forms found?

Ancient frozen microbial life HAS been found on meteors that have crashed into earth. However, it is quite possible those meteors originated from earth from an earlier blast having knocked a chunk away and that they did not originate off Earth.

From: Kevin
I agree that statistics are not inherently facts. But it is perfectly reasonable based on what we can observe that within our 46 billion light year of observable radius around us, there are approximately 10^23 stars. Theoretically life-supporting worlds occur more than once per star, while worlds that precisely match Earth's statistics are more around 1:5000-10000 (at least at the currently observed rate). But even at the worst case scenario, these numbers are tremendously huge to deny a likelihood. Am I guaranteeing anything? No. But the likelihood is astonishing.



Ancient frozen microbial life HAS been found on meteors that have crashed into earth. However, it is quite possible those meteors originated from earth from an earlier blast having knocked a chunk away and that they did not originate off Earth.

Interesting and do you know how similar it is to ancient stuff found on earth (not from meteors)?

From: Ashaman88
Interesting and do you know how similar it is to ancient stuff found on earth (not from meteors)?

http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Bacterial_Fossils_in_Meteorites should answer in much more detail than I will :p

From: Kevin
I agree that statistics are not inherently facts. But it is perfectly reasonable based on what we can observe that within our 46 billion light year of observable radius around us, there are approximately 10^23 stars. Theoretically life-supporting worlds occur more than once per star, while worlds that precisely match Earth's statistics are more around 1:5000-10000 (at least at the currently observed rate). But even at the worst case scenario, these numbers are tremendously huge to deny a likelihood. Am I guaranteeing anything? No. But the likelihood is astonishing.



Ancient frozen microbial life HAS been found on meteors that have crashed into earth. However, it is quite possible those meteors originated from earth from an earlier blast having knocked a chunk away and that they did not originate off Earth.

Wasn't aware of those figures, or the meteor thing. Pretty much in agreement with what you said.

This question is poorly designed. What is a subhuman when compared to the atmosphere of Jupiter… We couldn't survive their, but some other form of life, more highly evolved for the conditions that its located in then humans.

Subjectivity should be removed and you should use the class system that Michio Kaku discusses in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GooNhOIMY0

We have to assume that there is other life.

From: Hazzah
This question is poorly designed. What is a subhuman when compared to the atmosphere of Jupiter… We couldn't survive their, but some other form of life, more highly evolved for the conditions that its located in then humans.

Subjectivity should be removed and you should use the class system that Michio Kaku discusses in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GooNhOIMY0

My example involving extremophiles is basically the same as the example you provided here. They can survive in space, 2,000 degree heat, without water for 10 years, slightly above absolute zero, etc. What makes something '> human' is really up to the voter.

I believe there could be creatures/micro-orgasms that exist on other planets (Why not, there are other planets that can easily sustain life just too far for us to reach)

I do think humans are the most advanced species in the universe though, I highly doubt any alien that was smarter than humans would allow us to survive… We are a species that conquers, dominates, then destroys… not the best species to leave intact.

As stated by everyone in this thread, statistically our universe must be crawling with life. Obviously, we haven't found any yet which mean's it's only speculation based off of very good statistics, but the statement still stands

Humans probably won't find any intelligent life for hundreds or thousands of years considering the distance between solar systems is so vast. Mars/Europa/Titan/Enceladus could still offer some type of microbial life though. We won't know until we get there. If there are small forms of life on these moons it's interesting to think what will become of them when the sun gets bigger and hotter to heat up these distant frozen moons. So much to think about. :p

@[XoL]

I disagree with humans being the most intelligent beings in the universe, we don't know of any other types of intelligence yet so that's just impossible to say. More advanced civilizations on other planets could have come and gone already and we would never have known they existed. A supernova or large asteroid could make quick work of an intelligent species.

Civilizations die out eventually, just like everything else in this universe.

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It is very likely to exist life outside our planet. I know there are some basic conditions in order to a planet have life, but there are tons and tons of planets, many of them believed to have this conditions.
Plus, there might be life in the moons of Jupiter like Europa, and if there is in fact life in Europa this means that there are lots of planets that sustain life in our galaxy.

With the amount of planets in the observable universe, and the time these planets had for hosting life, I would say there are specimens that are more intelligent than humans.

The universe is doughnut shaped; therefore it appears infinite = problem solved.

E:
Also take a look at the black knight sattelite.
http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/the-truth-about-the-black-knight-satellite-mystery.html

From: John
The universe is doughnut shaped; therefore it appears infinite = problem solved.

E:
Also take a look at the black knight sattelite.
http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/the-truth-about-the-black-knight-satellite-mystery.html

The Black Knight article was an interesting read, although I'm not sold on the whole mystery about it. Looks like some space junk that has a cool/odd shape to it.

From: Hadley
The Black Knight article was an interesting read, although I'm not sold on the whole mystery about it. Looks like some space junk that has a cool/odd shape to it.

That moves around by it'self and appears and dissapears. Hmm, USA has lied to the public a lot. I don't buy that it's space junk.

There is also a ridiculous amount of video and testimonial evidence. There was recently a Citizens Hearing about UFOs covered by Vice. Apparently a major documentary will be released within the year as well called Truth Embargo.

I think it's likely that aliens exist.

Not that I'm hippie about it but scientifically the world we live in compared to the worlds we have found has been the best possible world for life. And we're kinda wasting it :P . If such a small world in a huge universe can create life, why can't there be aliens?

How could u rationally believe in the existence, or the non-existence of anything that has not been scientifically proven? To me, the only probable answer would be 'i dont know'. (same reason why i'm agnostic)

I agree with the idea of a possibility of Aliens on other planets but this question is completely subjective since there is no proof. In my OPINION, I completely believe that there is life on other planets and I chose > humans because for all we know they didn't have the dark ages, they didn't have to go through wars that destroyed millions of brilliant minds because of our petty differences. Needless to say, this is my opinion and my opinion alone.

P.S. > Humans in my mind is not about withstanding the harshest climate or surviving in the most desolate planet, its more about Intelligence and the understanding of the Universe.

The universe is so vast and infinite it'd be ignorant to think that we're the best that the universe could come up with. Well that's my 2 cents :)

Yes as alot have said, there are such a vast amount of planets that it is hard to comprehend us being alone as intelligent life in the universe. I would like to add that it would also be extremely arrogant of us to assume that we are smarter than anything potentially out there.

Where's the "= humans"?

From: Kasi
Where's the "= humans"?

Humans are terrestrial. Dogs are extra terrestrials.

aliens exist no doubt about it… have you seen like any movie out there? you guys must be living under rocks or something… Star Treck, Star Wars, Men in Black, ET, all the movies that have the literal name Alien in them, Avatar, War of the worlds, Zathura… Like you guys went to college and took a class on this stuff buy havent watched a movie or two? jeez Louise all these movies contain nothing but truth! and i thought i was dumb lol newbs :google:

I think it would be harder to believe that there is no other life than that there is other life.

The universe is so large that by the sheer amount of possibilities available, it is foolish to think ours is the only scenario where life can exist.

Also if ">humans" exist, it is likely that they would be able to completely conceal themselves from us without us or our tools being able to detect them, in which case the default case is to assume they do exist anyway.

Do you think that, if there were aliens which were more intelligent than the human species, that they would treat us as equals?
I'm a firm believer that if a foreign species were intelligent enough to traverse solar systems, there may be very sinister motives behind that intelligence.
Maybe they developed space travel to expand their empire or influence other cultures to gather resources for them or perform some sort of work. When you look at our own society, the leaders lie to us and try to manipulate our opinions with media/propaganda.. Go even further down the ladder and look at the way we treat animals.. Surely there would be some parallels to an alien society.

I'm pretty sure that there's life beyond our planet. I'm also certain that the extraterrestials do not contact us because we aren't ready with our low level of readiness.