SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

There has not been a IRL debate in a while here so here we go…. what do you guys think of the George Zimmerman verdict?

Do you think he should have been convicted of murder because he purposely wanted to kill somebody? Do think he deserves life in jail as the same as somebody who shot their wife?
Do you think he deserves manslaughter, maybe you think "sure he was defending himself but he didn't have to kill him"
or
Do you think he was in the right defending himself, and that he should not have to gamble his own life on guessing person is going to do.


Please do not post -

1) If your going to bring race into this and claim he was a racist. There is no proof of this and it is sorry to see the NAACP even get involved in this case.
2) If you have not read up about the story. AKA don't come on here and post "amg he shot somebody to death that was innocently walking on the street"
3) If you bring race into this your argument is auto-invalid. This literately does not involve race. You should only think this involves tace if your still a member of the NAACP.
4) This is not a gun control debate.


Facts that you should know:

1) Although neighborhood watches are discouraged to carry weapons, George Zimmerman was in his legal rights to carry one.
2) Trayvon Martin has been suspended from school multiple times. Therefor it cannot be crossed out that there is a chance he was up to no good.
3) Trayvon Martin was unarmed.
4) Trayvon Martin was shot from 8-18 inches away in the chest, no other injuries were found. George Zimmerman had cuts on his head and a bloody nose.

Please let me know if I can add any "facts" that would be "biased" to Trayvon Martin. Honestly I can't find any other then "He was 17 and unarmed". Honestly I'm trying not appear biased, but well I just can't find any legitimate facts supporting Trayvon Martin's case.




My opinion: I'm not going to say much here but comment on the NAACP:


The NAACP in this whole matter is just horrid. Posting pictures like this:

(him when hes 12)

Trying to portray him as a perfect kid and they he was shot "because hes black"

Actual up to date picture:



Again, not being racist, but I wouldn't say a perfect child would be flipping a bird with his pants half down while on a suspension from school. Maybe this just angers be because I think the NAACP is a waste of space (>1970) and is just out spreading hate and pulling the race card from their deck of race cards.

Do you have a link to the story? I haven't heard anything about this. :/

stupid story, and I'm curious how much the government gave to media stations to make this seem like such a big deal, while the same type of trial goes on constantly
and while distracting from the trial of the wikileaks dude getting burned

also use an before vowels

From: Flight
Do you have a link to the story? I haven't heard anything about this. :/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin that should be a good read although I would fact check it.

TLDR;

A guy was a neighborhood patrol watchmen, reported a suspicious male (notice how I don't include "black male" because that's not was reported until the dispatchers asked". He then followed him a little while and was instructed to stop so he did so. He asked the guy what he was doing, this part is unclear, the neighborhood patrol watchmen called for help and the call ended. All we know after this is that the neighborhood patrol watchmen had cuts on his head and a bloddy nose, and the suspect was shot once in the chest at around 8-18 inches (about a foot, pretty close) and that was the only injury, it killed him.

What I personally conclude from this:

1) The neighborhood patrol watchmen did not put up much of a fight, or even fight back at all because the suspect had no injuries of any kind. Because the suspect was shot at close range that is was I believe this was self defense, unless George punched himself in the nose and cut himself on the head it is apparent that he pulled his gun (most likely stored around the waist) and shot ONCE as quick as he could to avoid any further injuries to himself. In my opinion, in a situation like this I would not be worried about whether the guy I am about to shoot it going to die or not. I person should not have to think "will I be tried for murder if I do this"?

The the debate is over whether he thought his life was in danger at the time(because otherwise he wouldn't not be on trial for murder..). I believe that he if would have not shot the suspect he would have made it out alive, probably with some worse injuries, but at a time like that you have no idea and you cannot determine "is this guy going to kill me". I also believe if this teenager knew this guy had a gun, he wouldn't have attacked him in the first place.



TL:DR; Don't attack people then complain when you get shot and killed.
TLDR2: Don't go whining to the NAACP about civil rights when the case had nothing to do with civil rights.

This is the stupidest discussion ever…
Don't bring race into this? That's why Zimmerman is being tried. If race wasn't a factor, there would be no case.
Sorry for snide-ish comment but I cant see this any other way…
I did a paper on this guy and I'm sure that he did it out of racism.

EDIT:

1) If your going to bring race into this and claim he was a racist. There is no proof of this and it is sorry to see the NAACP even get involved in this case.
George Zimmerman is white, and Trayvon Martin is a black teenager. I would be concerned if NAACP hadn't gotten involved.
2) If you have not read up about the story. AKA don't come on here and post "amg he shot somebody to death that was innocently walking on the street"
Well yeah, he did shoot him, but it was in the backyard of a house that Martin was trespassing on.
3) If you bring race into this your argument is auto-invalid. This literately does not involve race. You should only think this involves tace if your still a member of the NAACP.
It does involve race…..
4) This is not a gun control debate.
Teenager shot by older man with gun, yes it could be a gun control debate.

Also, Zimmerman was told not to pursue Martin by a 911 dispatcher. Another point that racism could be easily involved.

From: Joseph D
This is the stupidest discussion ever…
Don't bring race into this? That's why Zimmerman is being tried. If race wasn't a factor, there would be no case.
Sorry for snide-ish comment but I cant see this any other way…
I did a paper on this guy and I'm sure that he did it out of racism.

EDIT:

1) If your going to bring race into this and claim he was a racist. There is no proof of this and it is sorry to see the NAACP even get involved in this case.
George Zimmerman is white, and Trayvon Martin is a black teenager. I would be concerned if NAACP hadn't gotten involved.
2) If you have not read up about the story. AKA don't come on here and post "amg he shot somebody to death that was innocently walking on the street"
Well yeah, he did shoot him, but it was in the backyard of a house that Martin was trespassing on.
3) If you bring race into this your argument is auto-invalid. This literately does not involve race. You should only think this involves tace if your still a member of the NAACP.
It does involve race…..
4) This is not a gun control debate.
Teenager shot by older man with gun, yes it could be a gun control debate.

Also, Zimmerman was told not to pursue Martin by a 911 dispatcher. Another point that racism could be easily involved.

1) NOPE. Hes latino. But what difference does that make?
2) What are you saying?
3) It DOES NOT involve race. This had NOTHING to do with race. The ONLY PEOPLE BRINGING RACE INTO IT IS THE FAMILY AND THE NAACP.
4) Nope wrong, it would be more of a stand your ground debate actually.

Also, Zimmerman was told not to pursue Martin by a 911 dispatcher. Another point that racism could be easily involved.

That's making stupid assumptions. That's like saying "there was a disagreement between a Latino and a black is must involve race"

I'm just going to put my opinion of what happened here. Please note that I may be wrong, as I have not have a professional legal background and may have all the information.

What George Zimmerman did was shoot Trayvon Martin and claim that it was self defense. Due to Florida laws, what he did was legal. I don't agree with what he did, but that doesn't change it's legality. In my opinion, there should be more restrictions on what someone can do in self defense, and you should not be able to kill someone because you feel scared. It does not make sense to me that two people could get into a fist fight, and that if one of them felt that they were in danger, they could pull out a gun and shoot the person they were fighting with.

E: @OfficerBarbrady mentioning Trayvon Martin having been suspended from school before: So? How would George Zimmerman have known that? George zimmerman shot him without knowing that.

From: BMWxi
I'm just going to put my opinion of what happened here. Please note that I may be wrong, as I have not have a professional legal background and may have all the information.

What George Zimmerman did was shoot Trayvon Martin and claim that it was self defense. Due to Florida laws, what he did was legal. I don't agree with what he did, but that doesn't change it's legality. In my opinion, there should be more restrictions on what someone can do in self defense, and you should not be able to kill someone because you feel scared. It does not make sense to me that two people could get into a fist fight, and that if one of them felt that they were in danger, they could pull out a gun and shoot the person they were fighting with.

Wasn't a fist fight, he had no injuries other then the gunshot. Why should we protect the criminal in what someone should be able to do in self defense? I don't like that logic because it gives the criminal an upper hand "oh this guy follows the law, the-fore he can do this this and this to me, but I can do it to him because i'm breaking the law anyway" It's not like this was a bar fight and then somebody pulled a gun in "self defense", that is different. There was no "disagreement", he was attacked pure and simple. It's not like he pulled his gun and unloaded a clip into him, he shot once.

Why couldn't Zimmerman have shot him in a limb, or better yet just point the gun and give him a warning first?

From: Officer Barbrady
Wasn't a fist fight, he had no injuries other then the gunshot. Why should we protect the criminal in what someone should be able to do in self defense? I don't like that logic because it gives the criminal an upper hand "oh this guy follows the law, the-fore he can do this this and this to me, but I can do it to him because i'm breaking the law anyway" It's not like this was a bar fight and then somebody pulled a gun in "self defense", that is different. There was no "disagreement", he was attacked pure and simple. It's not like he pulled his gun and unloaded a clip into him, he shot once.

We know from the call George Zimmerman made to the police that George Zimmerman was the one who had approached Trayvon Martin. How do we know that Trayvon Martin had not punched George Zimmerman out of self defense? Also when I mentioned the fist fight in my last post, that was a hypothetical situation that I described to show the flaws of the self defense laws.

From: BMWxi
We know from the call George Zimmerman made to the police that George Zimmerman was the one who had approached Trayvon Martin. How do we know that Trayvon Martin had not punched George Zimmerman out of self defense? Also when I mentioned the fist fight in my last post, that was a hypothetical situation that I described to show the flaws of the self defense laws.

How could he have punched George in self defense if George called for help and he had no markings on him? Have you seen the background on this kid?

@Flight I don't think many people actually think about that in a situation. Everybody says "I would warn them or shoot them in the leg" but we all know that almost never happens

Don't flame wars belong in the BBQ-pit?


My version of the story…
Trayvon was walking in yards near houses to stay out of the rain. Zimmerman thought that he look suspicious so he followed Trayvon. He saw he was being followed by Zimmerman, a "creepy ass cracker". At this point Zimmerman called emergency dispatch reporting a suspicious person, dispatch told Zimmerman not to follow. Then Trayvon went around the corner out of sight then dispatch asked where the suspicious person is now(paraphrased). Zimmerman went to follow Trayvon again some how they started fighting. IMO Trayvon started the fight because Zimmerman was harassing him. Zimmerman was losing the fight, he probably did fear for his life, he shot Trayvon.

From: Flight
Why couldn't Zimmerman have shot him in a limb, or better yet just point the gun and give him a warning first?

Allegedly, Trayvon saw the gun and they fought over control of the gun. I believe it was claimed in court, trayvons hand was on the gun when it was fired.

From: Officer Barbrady
How could he have punched George in self defense if George called for help and he had no markings on him? Have you seen the background on this kid?

@Flight I don't think many people actually think about that in a situation. Everybody says "I would warn them or shoot them in the leg" but we all know that almost never happens

George Zimmerman had called first, and was told to not do anything. It was after this that he approached Trayvon Martin. George Zimmerman is a large man, and Trayvon Martin may have felt threatened being approached by him.

As for "Have you seen the background on this kid?": That has nothing to do with my point, my point being that George Zimmerman didn't need to shoot him. George Zimmerman had not "seen the background" on Trayvon Martin, so it would be impossible for him to factor that into his reasoning on whether on not to shoot him.

E:

From: tealc
Don't flame wars belong in the BBQ-pit?


My version of the story…
Trayvon was walking in yards near houses to stay out of the rain. Zimmerman thought that he look suspicious so he followed Trayvon. He saw he was being followed by Zimmerman, a "creepy ass cracker". At this point Zimmerman called emergency dispatch reporting a suspicious person, dispatch told Zimmerman not to follow. Then Trayvon went around the corner out of sight then dispatch asked where the suspicious person is now(paraphrased). Zimmerman went to follow Trayvon again some how they started fighting. IMO Trayvon started the fight because Zimmerman was harassing him. Zimmerman was losing the fight, he probably did fear for his life, he shot Trayvon.



Allegedly, Trayvon saw the gun and they fought over control of the gun. I believe it was claimed in court, trayvons hand was on the gun when it was fired.

I am under the impression that this is a discussion and not a flame war. Also "your version of the story" seems very likely, this is similar to what I believe happened.

As for Trayvon Martin having his hand of the gun on it when it was fired: I'm curious as to what the evidence for this is.

From: BMWxi
George Zimmerman had called first, and was told to not do anything. It was after this that he approached Trayvon Martin. George Zimmerman is a large man, and Trayvon Martin may have felt threatened being approached by him.

As for "Have you seen the background on this kid?": That has nothing to do with my point, my point being that George Zimmerman didn't need to shoot him. George Zimmerman had not "seen the background" on Trayvon Martin, so it would be impossible for him to factor that into his reasoning on whether on not to shoot him.

Actually Zimmerman was 5'7 185 pounds the day of the arrest and on the other hand Martin was 6-6'3 and 160 Pounds, so actually Zimmerman would not appear to be a much taller man. He would actually appear much shorter. Also, he was questioning him on what he was doing (jumping in between lawns peering through windows in the middle of the night while it's raining) not threatening him.

From: BMWxi

I am under the impression that this is a discussion and not a flame war. Also "your version of the story" seems very likely, this is similar to what I believe happened.

As for Trayvon Martin having his hand of the gun on it when it was fired: I'm curious as to what the evidence for this is.

It will turn into one if the thread goes on long enough. AFAIK their was no real evidence for this just Zimmermans story.

From: BMWxi
George Zimmerman had called first, and was told to not do anything. It was after this that he approached Trayvon Martin. George Zimmerman is a large man, and Trayvon Martin may have felt threatened being approached by him.

As for "Have you seen the background on this kid?": That has nothing to do with my point, my point being that George Zimmerman didn't need to shoot him. George Zimmerman had not "seen the background" on Trayvon Martin, so it would be impossible for him to factor that into his reasoning on whether on not to shoot him.

E:


I am under the impression that this is a discussion and not a flame war. Also "your version of the story" seems very likely, this is similar to what I believe happened.

As for Trayvon Martin having his hand of the gun on it when it was fired: I'm curious as to what the evidence for this is.

But it's what happened… there was an eyewitness

From: Officer Barbrady
Actually Zimmerman was 5'7 185 pounds the day of the arrest and on the other hand Martin was 5'11 and 158 Pounds, so actually Zimmerman would not appear to be a much taller man. Also, he was questioning him on what he was doing (jumping in between lawns peering through windows in the middle of the night while it's raining) not threatening him.

Did I say taller? I don't remember saying taller. Seeing that George Zimmerman is slightly shorter, yet weighs ~30 lbs more, that would show that he has a wider body.

Also the police report says "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity." Where are you getting the "jumping in between lawns peering through windows" from?

From: BMWxi
Did I say taller? I don't remember saying taller. Seeing that George Zimmerman is slightly shorter, yet weighs ~30 lbs more, that would show that he has a wider body.

Also the police report says "There is no indication that Trayvon Martin was involved in any criminal activity." Where are you getting the "jumping in between lawns peering through windows" from?

5'7 185 pounds looks hella smaller then 6-6'3 (Can't find an accurate number.. most reports are saying 6'3, but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt) 160 pounds.

And for the illegal activity HE WAS IN SOMEBODY ELSES YARD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WHILE IT'S RAINING WHAT LOL? The crime had officially been committed, but it's fairly obv he was up to no good.
Again, he was questioning him what he was doing. There was no reason for Trayvon to slam him and continuously punch him (according to eye witness) (George calls for help multiple times, finally shoots him)

According to you, he should wait out the beating and just hope that does not get injured/killed, and if he decides to attempt to retaliate, he should be punished.

I'll leave it at this:

Getting out of your car and asking a stranger questions is not illegal. Even though I think Zimmerman should have stayed in the car what? he did is not wrong or illegal. Martin could have let Zimmerman approach him and just introduce himself to the local neighborhood watch, he could have told Zimmerman to F off, or just ignore him and walk home. Martin didn't choose any of those options. He decided to assault stranger, which is illegal, and that stranger shot him in self defense.

From: Officer Barbrady
5'7 185 pounds looks hella smaller then 6-6'3 (Can't find an accurate number.. most reports are saying 6'3, but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt) 160 pounds.

Where is this 6'3 coming from? Your last post said that Trayvon Martin was 5'11.

From: Officer Barbrady

And for the illegal activity HE WAS IN SOMEBODY ELSES YARD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WHILE IT'S RAINING WHAT LOL? The crime had officially been committed, but it's fairly obv he was up to no good.

Actually trespassing is a crime, so if the police said that no crime had been committed then that means he was not on anyone's property.

From: Officer Barbrady

Again, he was questioning him what he was doing. There was no reason for Trayvon to slam him and continuously punch him (according to eye witness) (George calls for help multiple times, finally shoots him)

According to you, he should wait out the beating and just hope that does not get injured/killed, and if he decides to attempt to retaliate, he should be punished.

No I do not think he should have waited out the beating, I think that he should have: A) Not been following someone around. B) Left. Trayvon obviously did not want a confrontation so Zimmerman could have left and called police.

From: Officer Barbrady

TL:DR; Don't attack people then complain when you get shot and killed.

Only pussies use guns in a fist fight. It's a grown ass wannabe cop vs. a 17 year old. The case already involves race. A board of jurors of only white women. The fact that when the fat girl came on the stand to testify, her twitter feed was filled with racial slur. No one gives a crap if she's black and speaks "black" or can't write cursive.. Who cares if she can't write cursive. That had nothing to do with the case but they tried so hard to make her look dumb on the stand. They ignored everything she said even though she was the one on the phone with the dead guy.

Also, you don't shoot someone holding a bag of skittles and a drink on their way to watch a football game. You don't kill them and then place the body in a specific position such as spreading his arms out. You don't leave your car and follow the guy home to shoot him either. The cops specifically told him to stay in his car and leave the guy alone.
The fact that George said he looked like he was going to burglarize a place for having a hoodie on is stupid. You have to see it on neutral grounds. Be race neutral not biased.


I watched the whole trial and you can clearly tell it's a kid screaming on the tape not the grown guy with the gun. Right after he shot him, all the screaming stopped so how can it be George that was screaming? It's completely biased because you only see it from one side. The prosecutor threw the case. The "professional" was paid 450$ an hr.. that's pretty crazy. He was paid 2400 for a single testimony (only a couple hours :S). The scene simulator was total B.S. Just some programmer looking for a quick buck advertising his emulation software. The fact that three jurors are now writing a book? What is with everyone thinking they're a writer or musician.

There's just so much wrong with this case. And his brother Robert Zimmerman can burn in hell. Arrogant prick. The argument that the kid was armed with the sidewalk and his fists and a pack of skittles is total B.S. It's skittles. Not like he forced George to step on lego or something. George was also armed with the side-walk and two fists and a gun.

I have never thought you were more ignorant RJJ or whatever your name is.

thank god there's people that arent so quick to jump on racial profiling. brandon&ian. Great post brandon i completely agree.

From: BMWxi
Where is this 6'3 coming from? Your last post said that Trayvon Martin was 5'11.


Actually trespassing is a crime, so if the police said that no crime had been committed then that means he was not on anyone's property.

If he did not want to confront him why did he have to jump on him? Oh, and I find more facts saying he was 6'3 then 5'11.

Only pussies use guns in a fist fight. It's a grown ass wannabe cop vs. a 17 year old. The case already involves race. A board of jurors of only white women. The fact that when the fat girl came on the stand to testify, her twitter feed was filled with racial slur. No one gives a crap if she's black and speaks "black" or can't write cursive.. Who cares if she can't write cursive. That had nothing to do with the case but they tried so hard to make her look dumb on the stand. They ignored everything she said even though she was the one on the phone with the dead guy.

Also, you don't shoot someone holding a bag of skittles and a drink on their way to watch a football game. You don't kill them and then place the body in a specific position such as spreading his arms out. You don't leave your car and follow the guy home to shoot him either. The cops specifically told him to stay in his car and leave the guy alone.
The fact that George said he looked like he was going to burglarize a place for having a hoodie on is stupid. You have to see it on neutral grounds. Be race neutral not biased.


I watched the whole trial and you can clearly tell it's a kid screaming on the tape not the grown guy with the gun. Right after he shot him, all the screaming stopped so how can it be George that was screaming? It's completely biased because you only see it from one side. The prosecutor threw the case. The "professional" was paid 450$ an hr.. that's pretty crazy. He was paid 2400 for a single testimony (only a couple hours :S). The scene simulator was total B.S. Just some programmer looking for a quick buck advertising his emulation software. The fact that three jurors are now writing a book? What is with everyone thinking they're a writer or musician.

"I watched the whole trial and you can clearly tell it's a kid screaming on the tape not the grown guy with the gun. Right after he shot him, all the screaming stopped so how can it be George that was screaming? It's completely biased because you only see it from one side. The prosecutor threw the case. The "professional" was paid 450$ an hr.. that's pretty crazy. He was paid 2400 for a single testimony (only a couple hours :S). The scene simulator was total B.S. Just some programmer looking for a quick buck advertising his emulation software. The fact that three jurors are now writing a book? What is with everyone thinking they're a writer or musician."


There's just so much wrong with this case. And his brother Robert Zimmerman can burn in hell. Arrogant prick. The argument that the kid was armed with the sidewalk and his fists and a pack of skittles is total B.S. It's skittles. Not like he forced George to step on lego or something. George was also armed with the side-walk and two fists and a gun.


No I do not think he should have waited out the beating, I think that he should have: A) Not been following someone around. B) Left. Trayvon obviously did not want a confrontation so Zimmerman could have left and called police.

I'm not gonna qoute this whole post so here:

"Only pussies use guns in a fist fight. It's a grown ass wannabe cop vs. a 17 year old" - I don't get this. This isn't a schoolyard fight. Can people please stop assuming the guy is a "kid". The media keeps putting out comparison pictures like this:


Tray is 12 in that picture. And that's Zimmerman after being arrested. Let's make Tray look like a little boy, and make George look like a big scary man.

This is the actual latest pictures of Tray:


"The fact that when the fat girl came on the stand to testify, her twitter feed was filled with racial slur. No one gives a crap if she's black and speaks "black" or can't write cursive.. Who cares if she can't write cursive. That had nothing to do with the case but they tried so hard to make her look dumb on the stand. They ignored everything she said even though she was the one on the phone with the dead guy." - Here is what we have of that 911 call:

T: That N-word is still following me now.
911 operator: What did the man looked like
T: cracker. Creepy ass cracker
911 operator hears voices in the background,
T: Why are you following me for?
Z: What you doing around here?


There is no other transcript to his 911 call.

Oh, and about the twitter stuff, sort of irrelevant considering the fact that the Zimmermans have had their fair share of hate mail/death threats too.



"You don't leave your car and follow the guy home to shoot him either. The cops specifically told him to stay in his car and leave the guy alone.
The fact that George said he looked like he was going to burglarize a place for having a hoodie on is stupid. You have to see it on neutral grounds. Be race neutral not biased."

Here is the 911 call transcript: http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

George was following him and STOPPED after he was asked so by the 911 operator.


"There's just so much wrong with this case. And his brother Robert Zimmerman can burn in hell. Arrogant prick. The argument that the kid was armed with the sidewalk and his fists and a pack of skittles is total B.S. It's skittles. Not like he forced George to step on lego or something. George was also armed with the side-walk and two fists and a gun. No I do not think he should have waited out the beating, I think that he should have: A) Not been following someone around. B) Left. Trayvon obviously did not want a confrontation so Zimmerman could have left and called police.
"

Trayvon could have told George anything, he could have met him, he could have told him to screw off, he could have ran, but no, he attacked him and George reacted in self defense. All George asked him was "What are you doing around here?"

I have never thought you were more ignorant RJJ or whatever your name is.

thank god there's people that arent so quick to jump on racial profiling. brandon&ian. Great post brandon i completely agree.

What part of my posts are ignorant? Isn't it ignorant to assume that just because he was black he was being "targeted"?

Zimmerman did what he should have done. He shouldn't go to jail.

I hate to break it to you, dude, but Trayvon is 16 in that picture, not 12. Also the picture where he's with his pants almost down and giving the double bird to the camera? Not of Trayvon. It's a different guy.

From: BMWxi

No I do not think he should have waited out the beating, I think that he should have: A) Not been following someone around. B) Left. Trayvon obviously did not want a confrontation so Zimmerman could have left and called police.

Zimmerman did call the police. Ahead of time. Who explicitly told him to leave Trayvon alone.

hes not guilty

nobody's ganna care a about this whole case eventually

Wow, just wow. This thread definitely makes me think differently about some of you guys… :eek:

When it comes down to it GZ murdered a child when it completely could have been avoided. And they let him walk. I hate this country.

From: Officer Barbrady


Tray is 12 in that picture. And that's Zimmerman after being arrested. Let's make Tray look like a little boy, and make George look like a big scary man.

This is the actual latest pictures of Tray…

No it isn't. That is not his picture at all. I don't know where you got that last picture with the pants down.

T: That N-word is still following me now.
911 operator: What did the man looked like
T: cracker. Creepy ass cracker
911 operator hears voices in the background,
T: Why are you following me for?
Z: What you doing around here?

There is no other transcript to his 911 call.

There you have it.. George is following him. If he was going to burglarize the place, why in the world would he call 911. If he recognized George as a cop sorta person, why call 911? Clearly he doesn't know who's following him and why. It's his neighbourhood too. What gives George Zimmerman a non-police officer the right to even question him.

Here is the 911 call transcript: [url]http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html[/url]

George was following him and STOPPED after he was asked so by the 911 operator. 

No he did not stop following him. It says "Why are you following me" in Trayvon's transcript. It also said that he was following him during the trial and was never rebutted by the defense.

Trayvon could have told George anything, he could have met him, he could have told him to screw off, he could have ran, but no, he attacked him and George reacted in self defense. All George asked him was "What are you doing around here?"

Yeah and George could have said anything as well or attacked him. You can't prove to me that Trayvon attacked George. You can't prove that George acted in self-defense either. George doesn't have the right to ask him anything. He's not a cop. If he was, he would have read him his rights first. He could have told him who he was. "I'm neighbourhood watch.." blah blah blah. George could have also made up that whole story during his trial. The case was thrown.

Also in the transcript, what was in his hand was skittles. It was already said during the trial what was in his hand.

What I do agree though is that this case is only blown up for TV/media.

From: Brandon
No it isn't. That is not his picture at all. I don't know where you got that last picture with the pants down.



There you have it.. George is following him. If he was going to burglarize the place, why in the world would he call 911. If he recognized George as a cop sorta person, why call 911? Clearly he doesn't know who's following him and why. It's his neighbourhood too. What gives George Zimmerman a non-police officer the right to even question him.

Here is the 911 call transcript: [url]http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html[/url]

George was following him and STOPPED after he was asked so by the 911 operator. 

No he did not stop following him. It says "Why are you following me" in Trayvon's transcript. It also said that he was following him during the trial and was never rebutted by the defense.



Yeah and George could have said anything as well or attacked him. You can't prove to me that Trayvon attacked George. You can't prove that George acted in self-defense either. George doesn't have the right to ask him anything. He's not a cop. If he was, he would have read him his rights first. He could have told him who he was. "I'm neighbourhood watch.." blah blah blah. George could have also made up that whole story during his trial. The case was thrown.

Also in the transcript, what was in his hand was skittles. It was already said during the trial what was in his hand.

Your right. Martin could have completely told George to F off and he could have walked away. But somehow they ended up in a altercation, it is pretty clear that there is no way Zimmerman had done any physical damage to Martin (other then the gunshot of course)

Let me ask everyone a question: Do you guys think there would be such mass rage if Martin would have shot Zimmerman? My guess would be NO.

[YOUTUBE]WtcveaMUJSI[/YOUTUBE]

Note: Do not read the comments on this video.

From: senrath
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtcveaMUJSI&feature=share

Note: Do not read the comments on this video.

"Auther:Young turks"

Not going to watch a video made by people more biased the CNN and Fox news combined. Sorry, but I have never been able to get through a full video by them. The first minute of their videos I usually agree with, then the guy with that fat head starts completely exaggerating things and blowing them out of complete proportion, and then goes on to talk about how the "other side" exaggerates things.

From: Officer Barbrady
"Auther:Young turks"

Not going to watch a completely biased video.

Suit yourself. I assume you haven't watched any of the Fox News reports then. Or the CNN ones. Or any mainstream news source. Here's a tip: they're all biased.

From: senrath
Suit yourself. I assume you haven't watched any of the Fox News reports then. Or the CNN ones. Or any mainstream news source. Here's a tip: they're all biased.

I know. We have got Fox news on one side probably calling Zimmerman a fawcking Hero and should be auto president and CNN on the otherwise calling him a big monster murder that should be put down. Obv exaggerated. I don't like the Young turks especially much because they claim not to be biased when they clearly are. (Girls is pretty nice looking (still just as annoying) but the fat head man is just F****** annoying)

From: Officer Barbrady
(Girls is pretty nice looking but the fat head man is just F****** annoying)

Good thing you judge the quality of their reporting/commentating by the attractiveness of the hosts, I can tell you really listened to what they said before forming your opinion.

Everyone is allowed their opinion, and RJJ has his. Respect that. This is meant to be a discussion, not a thread to have a go at who has an opinion which goes against the majority.

From: Rich
Everyone is allowed their opinion, and RJJ has his. Respect that. This is meant to be a discussion, not a thread to have a go who has an opinion which goes against the majority.

I respect his opinion, although I don't agree with it. In a discussion/debate it is perfectly fine to question the source of somebody's opinion, and to try to change it. As for his opinion going against the majority, that is fine. I haven't seen any personal attacks on RJJ or any of the other participants.

From: BMWxi
I respect his opinion, although I don't agree with it. In a discussion/debate it is perfectly fine to question the source of somebody's opinion, and to try to change it. As for his opinion going against the majority, that is fine. I haven't seen any personal attacks on RJJ or any of the other participants.

These?

From: Stayon
I have never thought you were more ignorant RJJ or whatever your name is.

thank god there's people that arent so quick to jump on racial profiling. brandon&ian. Great post brandon i completely agree.

From: count to potato
Wow, just wow. This thread definitely makes me think differently about some of you guys… :eek:

And if I'm being picky…

From: BMWxi
Good thing you judge the quality of their reporting/commentating by the attractiveness of the hosts, I can tell you really listened to what they said before forming your opinion.

He never stated he judges the quality of their reports based on the attractiveness of the hosts, but instead he just gave his opinion of the them.

From: Rich

He never stated he judges the quality of their reports based on the attractiveness of the hosts, but instead he just gave his opinion of the them.

I missed those ones, and you're right. Myself I try to separate the debate from the person, it's much better that way in my opinion

RJJ, I'm sorry for misinterpreting your comment about the hosts.

BraK tries to wrap mind around this reason for this:

http://patriotupdate.com/2013/07/men-beat-jogger-in-retaliation-of-zimmerman-verdict/

Take your pic of the meme's

From: Rich
These?

I was pretty upset about this issue earlier when I wrote that. I apologize for my comment, as it was uncalled for and did little to contribute to the thread. :\


Not that it matters or excuses me for not thinking before posting.. I had actually just been talking about this with my father on the phone today and we had *ahem* a pretty heated discussion about it as we both had very different opinions regarding it. I also said some things to my father that weren't cool :unsure:

Overall the big lesson today lesson was I need to learn to think before I post/speak and make sure it's constructive and not just me being emotional.
*goes to the corner*

I think what everyone misses the fact that the shooting took place in a gated community Martin has no business just "walking around" as he is not a resident. I believe Zimmerman knows WHO and WHO DOESN'T live in that estate, and this motivated him to track martin.

What a tragedy, a child lost his life and a man's life is ruined.

They both of could just stayed home that night, but they didn't. RIP.

From: Rich
Everyone is allowed their opinion, and RJJ has his. Respect that. This is meant to be a discussion, not a thread to have a go who has an opinion which goes against the majority.

Apparently I must spread some rep around before attempting to add another green box underneath your green Yoda. In any case, well said.

I dont think Zimmerman is guilty of anything. The wounds he suffered seem to show that T.Martin attacked first.

About all the fuss in media: had it been a white thug with the same history, nobody would give a damn. The whole racism topic is too puffed up imo (I dont deny there is some but c'mon…).

From: slushpuppy
I think what everyone misses the fact that the shooting took place in a gated community Martin has no business just "walking around" as he is not a resident. I believe Zimmerman knows WHO and WHO DOESN'T live in that estate, and this motivated him to track martin.

Actually Trayvon Martin was going to his father's girlfriend's house where he was staying at the time. So yes, he does have business there.

And I don't think think that Zimmerman would know who lives there and who doesn't. The community has 260 units, each with probably multiple people living in them.

From: Flight
Apparently I must spread some rep around before attempting to add another green box underneath your green Yoda.

It's the thought that counts :kiss:

What I dont understand is why people are A) blowing this way out of proportion and B) forgetting that we are only supposed to convict someone when there is "proof beyond a reasonable doubt". I would say there is a lot of doubt involved in these case, such to the point where people are filling in the holes with "what ifs" on both sides.

My two cents.

Martin: Not the best choice of a path, not the best choice of actions, ended up in an altercation and shot.

Zimmerman: Feels need to protect neighborhood, follows Martin, questions and provokes, feels threatened for his life, shoots.

By Florida law, what he did was not illegal, but no, it was not "right".

So many holes in the story on both sides.

It's like me calling you gay, you punching me and me shooting you for it.