SRL Archive - News and General

I was curious about the reasons "Jagex" is allowed to sue companies for publishing software they don't like?

They (and technically you) are allowed to sue anyone for any reason they feel like. However, they only sue in cases they feel they are likely to win - or at least make a difference in their target.

For example, someone using some version of one of their products (IE: A RS private server) and in some manner gains any amount of money from it (donations, fees, etc) is a likely target; as is anyone who breaks the law in some manner involving one of their products (IE: an EOC injection bot).

OSBOT and TRIBOT of perfect examples of what Jagex will go after. They are making thousands of dollars of "selling" their product. Their Selling the exploits for Jagex's brainchild.

IF they sue and win they get all the information from the website including emails. They will cross reference any data they have with their player database. Additionally they will usually ask fro grievances, or monetary compensation.

If you mess with their EOC client and distribute it then your pretty much a target.

From: Goatchees
OSBOT and TRIBOT of perfect examples of what Jagex will go after. They are making thousands of dollars of "selling" their product. Their Selling the exploits for Jagex's brainchild.

Just what he said if you mess around with the client then you are open to a hefty sueing

From: happy hippo
Just what he said if you mess around with the client then you are open to a hefty sueing

Only the EoC client.
Not the 07 one yet.

From: Goatchees
OSBOT and TRIBOT of perfect examples of what Jagex will go after. They are making thousands of dollars of "selling" their product. Their Selling the exploits for Jagex's brainchild.

Why not PB? They are literally making thousands.

From: Rincewind
Why not PB? They are literally making thousands.

Because the above isn't true. They cannot just "SUE" you for messing with the EOC client. They can only sue you if you actually de-obfuscate it and mess with it using the information you find. However, if you leave it obbed and use patterns for finding things and messing with it that way, there isn't too much they can go after you for. I'm sure they can still sue you but there isn't much grounds.

Also, since Tribot does not "MESS" with the EOC client directly, there isn't any way to really target them. The reason is because it isn't messing with the client but rather messing with your own graphics card and through a plugin too; they can't really say, "You're not allowed to intercept or touch data going to your own graphics card"..

Then again, it is jagex and it is reverse engineering and since there's a lot of quirky areas/rules around such a topic, almost anything really is possible.

From: Brandon
Because the above isn't true. They cannot just "SUE" you for messing with the EOC client. They can only sue you if you actually de-obfuscate it and mess with it using the information you find. However, if you leave it obbed and use patterns for finding things and messing with it that way, there isn't too much they can go after you for. I'm sure they can still sue you but there isn't much grounds.

Also, since Tribot does not "MESS" with the EOC client directly, there isn't any way to really target them. The reason is because it isn't messing with the client but rather messing with your own graphics card and through a plugin too; they can't really say, "You're not allowed to intercept or touch data going to your own graphics card"..

Then again, it is jagex and it is reverse engineering and since there's a lot of quirky areas/rules around such a topic, almost anything really is possible.

Creating anything and making profit from it at the expense of another companys work… could result in a law suit?

From: Peanuts
Creating anything and making profit from it at the expense of another companys work… could result in a law suit?

Thats a nice generalisation of it, yes, but in the eyes of the law, the exact punishable/harmful messing could be sth else what the bot makers do :)

I have wondered…. If Jagex wanted to sue us, what terms would they be able to do it on?

in my opnion, jagex does not care. They just want to seem like they care. Otherwise everything would be sued.

From: Swaggar
in my opnion, jagex does not care. They just want to seem like they care. Otherwise everything would be sued.

Why would they sue people they can't win against? That's just a huge money sink and will only hurt them.

From: Kevin
Why would they sue people they can't win against? That's just a huge money sink and will only hurt them.

You do have a point there, They cant exactly go after all the little fishes as they have bigger fish to fry

From: Brandon
Because the above isn't true. They cannot just "SUE" you for messing with the EOC client. They can only sue you if you actually de-obfuscate it and mess with it using the information you find. However, if you leave it obbed and use patterns for finding things and messing with it that way, there isn't too much they can go after you for. I'm sure they can still sue you but there isn't much grounds.

Also, since Tribot does not "MESS" with the EOC client directly, there isn't any way to really target them. The reason is because it isn't messing with the client but rather messing with your own graphics card and through a plugin too; they can't really say, "You're not allowed to intercept or touch data going to your own graphics card"..

Then again, it is jagex and it is reverse engineering and since there's a lot of quirky areas/rules around such a topic, almost anything really is possible.

I'm not talking down to PB, but they are one of the central hubs of goldfarming, botting and rwting. Is that not enough for Jagex to try and get them? Sorry but my knowledge of law is pretty poor.

From: Rincewind
I'm not talking down to PB, but they are one of the central hubs of goldfarming, botting and rwting. Is that not enough for Jagex to try and get them? Sorry but my knowledge of law is pretty poor.

Yeah I understand what you are all saying but the thing is, RWT doesn't really hold up in a court so much. Well some judges are stupid and would hold up such a thing but RS-gold has no real world value. It's not a real currency (only virtual). Goldsellers and buyers are the ones that determine the value. There is no fixed value from country to country.

Botting a game isn't an offence either.. Else Steam would be suing botters as well.

The only things left that they can really get you on is messing with their client I guess. Not too sure as I've never been sued. Someone mentioned tribot and I mentioned why it may or may not be easy.

But there is a topic around here that already mentions this stuff. I can't remember where but I THINK "Core" was the one who looked up all the legal stuff.
Law isn't exactly my field of study either.


Found it:
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98850&page=2&p=1199388#post1199388
http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102496

IANAL, but from what I understand, the issues of digital rights legislation are incredibly messy, because the idea of digital property that doesn't really "exist" is around, the laws in place are actually really not up to scratch, and so it's very possible to find ways around the system.

But yes, I think the main issue with Jagex taking down large websites like PB is the monetary side of things. I really don't think they're in the position to take down big websites like PB, and they probably need the revenue from bots anyway.

From: Richard
IANAL, but from what I understand, the issues of digital rights legislation are incredibly messy, because the idea of digital property that doesn't really "exist" is around, the laws in place are actually really not up to scratch, and so it's very possible to find ways around the system.

But yes, I think the main issue with Jagex taking down large websites like PB is the monetary side of things. I really don't think they're in the position to take down big websites like PB, and they probably need the revenue from bots anyway.

Basically, but it depends on specific cases. I mean, you never know the verdict.

From: Raiden702
Basically, but it depends on specific cases. I mean, you never know the verdict.

Yea but its hard to win against a muilti million dollar company, it's best to settle it out of court (when you either shut down your site or agree to pay a much smaller fee and they sign some sort of document saying they won't sue you)