SRL Archive - Discussions & Debates

I'm curious if anyone wants to start a dialog about the following argument: Simulation Hypothesis
or more in-depth than wiki (original paper Bostrom wrote): Simulation Argument PDF


Keep these themes in mind when you read the above:
Matrix, The Truman Show, Gamer, Assassins Creed,etc.; all have some theme of a 'puppeteer' somehow controlling the actions of a 'puppet' in an alternate world (usually one generated completely by computers).

[LEFT](post-humans: cyborgs, nano-technology integrated into material body-form, inorganic computers acting as cells/etc)[/LEFT]

TLDR:
Cool, so basically one of the following scenarios are true (plz read article for more detail…)(best case of each proposition..):
One:[LEFT] we never make it to becoming post-humans because of any number of reasons (DOOM, war, famine, disease, mass gene-icide (think fking up genetics/etc..)"self-replicating nanobots capable of feeding on organic matter..")… and so because of the reason(s), we don't run any simulation of our ancestry.[/LEFT]
two: [LEFT]we've tried to run simulations, perhaps many simulations, almost an infinite amount–yet, cannot simulate enough times to create an accurate simulation of ancestry.[/LEFT]
three:[LEFT]we're actually in a computer simulation (i.e. RIGHT NOW). meaning that at least one post-human is alive now or will be in the future, and definitely succeeds in creating such a simulation of our beautiful ancestry..[/LEFT]


So what do you all think of that? :)

No way to know. Does it really matter?

Nothing ultimately matters, right?

If there were a way to know, what would you think then?

From: meanderingmonk
Nothing ultimately matters, right?

If there were a way to know, what would you think then?

Find a bug in the simulation/witness interaction from the admins. (religion anyone?)

I believe if you can 100% simulate physic laws then it will be real and not a simulation. In other words you can't simulate them.

Regardless, we are stuck in it and there is no escape.

That's a very interesting subject and I'd like to know a little more on how you perceive it reflects upon our society today, or how it may have been. There's a lot of controversy on said topic and personally I believe a variety of things :biggrin:

There is definitely a more complex universe out there we could even begin to understand. I think what we have developed in society, in regards to our system of data and terminologies, upon mathematics, sciences, even emotions and things such as measurements, language, currency. Simple aspects of life may feel somewhat of a simulation. I'd like to hear your response

There was something I was reading about the echoes of the big bang being what we see in our universe today, and dark matter having a high amount of energy. What could have created this bang is inexplicable, and once again, beyond our understanding. Lots to think about

From: meanderingmonk
Nothing ultimately matters, right?

If there were a way to know, what would you think then?

+1

From: weequ
I believe if you can 100% simulate physic laws then it will be real and not a simulation. In other words you can't simulate them.

I think what you're getting at, Bostrom outlines. There would have to be some type of constraints for the system to run within; i.e. its own set of physical/natural laws. Of course, at some point it may be the case that an observer would forget they were in the simulation.

But what if 300 or more years from now, there's something akin to Super Intelligence (or artificial intelligence, if you will). Maybe this system will have found a way to allow for the integration of the human mind into a very large, living, organic network. Think of the internet, but instead of silly pcs or machines we have running it currently, it possibly would be akin to brain-in-vat (i.e.organic computers evolving self-replicating abilities–creation of new Organic life?).

There's so many possibilities of what could occur if this were the case, anything I say will be pure speculation. But I believe very deeply that the way we currently view our Mind-Body organ (that of the Self), will change to such an extent–and so rapidly–that any conceptions of what happened before this new place would almost vanish.

There's no reason to fear that this will be the case though. :)

Find a bug in the simulation/witness interaction from the admins. (religion anyone?)

What do you mean by bug? Or do you mean something more along the lines of a hidden signal, imbedded within the universe itself. or if somehow there's a way to signal to the admins that, "hey, we're alive in here, we need you to shut this thing off FFS.." That wouldn't work, but really, what do we tell them? How could we ensure they received the message? :frusty:

This brings up something interesting: What if we can't reach the admins? :huh: What if they aren't there, for whatever reason? Now we have this program running on what appears to be an infinite loop, stretching across the emptiness of time.

I have this weird scenario that I want to toss out there:wacko:: what if the admin forgot to leave the simulated universe he decided to test, for whatever reason, and is now trapped in his own program?
The admin wasn't so naive as to program the thing without safeguards, I'm assuming. So there has to be at least ONE safeguard in the whole program that would signal the guy to wake up. I would hope so anyways.

Look into panpsychism, I think this gets into the religious-thing you're referring to.

That's a very interesting subject and I'd like to know a little more on how you perceive it reflects upon our society today, or how it may have been. There's a lot of controversy on said topic and personally I believe a variety of things

There is definitely a more complex universe out there we could even begin to understand. I think what we have developed in society, in regards to our system of data and terminologies, upon mathematics, sciences, even emotions and things such as measurements, language, currency. Simple aspects of life may feel somewhat of a simulation. I'd like to hear your response

There was something I was reading about the echoes of the big bang being what we see in our universe today, and dark matter having a high amount of energy. What could have created this bang is inexplicable, and once again, beyond our understanding. Lots to think about

Technology has literally started to (if it hasn't already) conquer the entire civilized world. It's only a matter of time before we'll have cyborgs walking amongst us. Think of things like self-driving cars, Google Goggles, and in the (near/far) future, holographic projections, nanobots repairing dying cells–what limit on life expectancy?–and so on.

http://www.ted.com/talks/kevin_kelly_on_how_technology_evolves.html

^Watch this video, it's awesome and the next part will make much more sense^

I think technology is starting to manifest in the physical, material world, as an extension of the universal Self. I,mind and body, soul, awareness or consciousness; these are all parts of Universal Self.


::::::::::

That's enough for one sitting, my eyes hurt. >.<

From: meanderingmonk
Nothing ultimately matters, right?

If there were a way to know, what would you think then?

Brb, off to bot real life. ;)

Wow, that's a fascinating theory, and it's the first time I hear of it here. Indeed, sometimes the idea that we live according to a scenario created by someone just for fun sometimes occurs to me. I often thought of a reality show. But indeed, a computer simulation is even more interesting.

I think this is actually a very likely possibility.

From: litoris
Find a bug in the simulation

No bugs, Ashaman wrote the simulation. :) hahaha

From: KeepBotting
I think this is actually a very likely possibility.

Seems pretty feasible.

I like this one, too… the universe is a hologram that exists on the horizon of a black hole.

The Black Hole War is a great read on this. If you've never been exposed to it your mind explodes a little bit.

I found a youtube by the author (Leonard Susskind) for the reading afflicted.